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[2a02:ab04:158:f000:2548:f3bd:8b42:b18f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-4887a354d57sm18590430f8f.14.2026.09.27.02.20.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 27 Sep 2026 02:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2026 05:20:22 -0400 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Kevin Wolf Cc: Alex =?iso-8859-1?Q?Benn=E9e?= , Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=2E_Berrang=E9?= , Paolo Bonzini , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Alistair Francis , BALATON Zoltan , Fabiano Rosas , Peter Maydell , Warner Losh , Philippe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mathieu-Daud=E9?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/4] docs/devel: relax policy on AI-generated contributions Message-ID: <20260927050956-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20260921075251.12831-1-pbonzini@redhat.com> <20260921075251.12831-2-pbonzini@redhat.com> <87ik3vyp3i.fsf@draig.linaro.org> <20260924120617-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=mst@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: qemu development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On Thu, Sep 24, 2026 at 08:06:05PM +0200, Kevin Wolf wrote: > Am 24.09.2026 um 18:06 hat Michael S. Tsirkin geschrieben: > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2026 at 12:46:41PM +0200, Kevin Wolf wrote: > > > Am 24.09.2026 um 11:29 hat Alex Bennée geschrieben: > > > > Kevin Wolf writes: > > > > > > > > > Am 21.09.2026 um 15:20 hat Daniel P. Berrangé geschrieben: > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 21, 2026 at 09:52:48AM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote: > > > > >> > +.. note:: **Use of AI does not remove the need for authors to comply > > > > >> > + with all other requirements for contribution.** In particular, > > > > >> > + the ``Signed-off-by`` label in a patch submission is a statement > > > > >> > + that the author takes responsibility for the entire contents of > > > > >> > + the patch, certifying that their patch submission is made in > > > > >> > + accordance with the rules of the :ref:`Developer's Certificate of > > > > >> > + Origin (DCO) `. > > > > >> > + > > > > >> > + Since a submitter cannot audit LLM output against its training > > > > >> > + data, the DCO is paired with :ref:`metadata in the commit message > > > > >> > + ` about AI-generated parts. The DCO still certifies > > > > >> > + that the contributor has the legal right to submit code in general. > > > > >> > > > > >> I'm not a fan of this second paragraph, as that feels like it is undermining > > > > >> the DCO. That first sentence in particular is somewhat saying that the > > > > >> contributor does not have to think about plagarism and thed project is ok > > > > >> with that, and also implying that the DCO doesn't apply to the LLM output. > > > > >> This is both not OK in its implication of the project accepting some > > > > >> liability, and then also contradicted by the next sentence. > > > > >> > > > > >> IMHO this paragraph should just be removed. The first paragraph clearly > > > > >> states the DCO applies to the submission as a whole, and leaves all liability > > > > >> for infringement on the contributor. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think making this the individual contributor's problem is great. > > > > > It's rather unfriendly towards contributors to expect them to certify > > > > > something that we all know they can't honestly certify. > > > > > > > > This is the current position with the DCO anyway. If the contributor has > > > > copy and pasted (and maybe adapted) from Stack Overflow they are still > > > > realistically the only person that can make that judgement. > > > > > > Yes, that's the current position with the DCO and the reasoning why we > > > said LLM output is unacceptable in submissions. > > > > > > The big difference is if I copy and pasted from Stack Overflow, I _know_ > > > that I did that. If the LLM effectively does it for me, I don't know > > > that. The best I can do is check if I can find similar code elsewhere. > > > > You can block your LLM from accessing stack overflow. > > Given that training my own model from scratch isn't a realistic option, > I can't block the LLM from being trained on data from Stack Overflow. > > Kevin But again, that is beside the point, unless you believe that a judge will (or should?) close all LLMs overnight declaring their output a derivative of the internet and so illegal to use. If not, training is transformative, and LLM output is not a derivative of the internet *unless it is input with Stack Overflow*. -- MST