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Wed, 19 May 2021 13:12:00 +0000 Received: from nvdebian.localnet (172.20.145.6) by HQMAIL107.nvidia.com (172.20.187.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 19 May 2021 13:11:57 +0000 From: Alistair Popple To: Peter Xu CC: Jason Gunthorpe , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Christoph Hellwig Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 5/8] mm: Device exclusive memory access Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 23:11:55 +1000 Message-ID: <2569629.VzlulnA7BY@nvdebian> In-Reply-To: References: <20210407084238.20443-1-apopple@nvidia.com> <2235357.HsqDk0zIjc@nvdebian> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Originating-IP: [172.20.145.6] X-ClientProxiedBy: HQMAIL107.nvidia.com (172.20.187.13) To HQMAIL107.nvidia.com (172.20.187.13) X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2dfe2fa5-c08a-45ec-dc52-08d91ac7b06d X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: MN2PR12MB4813: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000; 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X-OriginatorOrg: Nvidia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2021 13:12:00.9280 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2dfe2fa5-c08a-45ec-dc52-08d91ac7b06d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a;Ip=[216.228.112.34];Helo=[mail.nvidia.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6NAM11FT063.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR12MB4813 Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org On Wednesday, 19 May 2021 10:15:41 PM AEST Peter Xu wrote: > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 09:04:53PM +1000, Alistair Popple wrote: > > Failing fork() because we couldn't take a lock doesn't seem like the right > > approach though, especially as there is already existing code that > > retries. I get this adds complexity though, so would be happy to take a > > look at cleaning copy_pte_range() up in future. > > Yes, I proposed that as this one won't affect any existing applications > (unlike the existing ones) but only new userspace driver apps that will use > this new atomic feature. > > IMHO it'll be a pity to add extra complexity and maintainance burden into > fork() if only for keeping the "logical correctness of fork()" however the > code never triggers. If we start with trylock we'll know whether people > will use it, since people will complain with a reason when needed; however > I still doubt whether a sane userspace device driver should fork() within > busy interaction with the device underneath.. I will refrain from commenting on the sanity or otherwise of doing that :-) Agree such a scenario seems unlikely in practice (and possibly unreasonable). Keeping the "logical correctness of fork()" still seems worthwhile to me, but if the added complexity/maintenance burden for an admittedly fairly specific feature is going to stop progress here I am happy to take the fail fork approach. I could then possibly fix it up as a future clean up to copy_pte_range(). Perhaps others have thoughts? > In all cases, please still consider to keep them in copy_nonpresent_pte() > (and if to rework, separating patches would be great). > > Thanks, > > -- > Peter Xu From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5D0C43462 for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 13:12:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C69EB6135F for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 13:12:05 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org C69EB6135F Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; X-OriginatorOrg: Nvidia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2021 13:12:00.9280 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2dfe2fa5-c08a-45ec-dc52-08d91ac7b06d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a; Ip=[216.228.112.34]; Helo=[mail.nvidia.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6NAM11FT063.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR12MB4813 Subject: Re: [Nouveau] [PATCH v8 5/8] mm: Device exclusive memory access X-BeenThere: nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Nouveau development list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rcampbell@nvidia.com, willy@infradead.org, daniel@ffwll.ch, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, bsingharora@gmail.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, hch@infradead.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, bskeggs@redhat.com, Jason Gunthorpe , akpm@linux-foundation.org, Christoph Hellwig Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: nouveau-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Nouveau" On Wednesday, 19 May 2021 10:15:41 PM AEST Peter Xu wrote: > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 09:04:53PM +1000, Alistair Popple wrote: > > Failing fork() because we couldn't take a lock doesn't seem like the right > > approach though, especially as there is already existing code that > > retries. I get this adds complexity though, so would be happy to take a > > look at cleaning copy_pte_range() up in future. > > Yes, I proposed that as this one won't affect any existing applications > (unlike the existing ones) but only new userspace driver apps that will use > this new atomic feature. > > IMHO it'll be a pity to add extra complexity and maintainance burden into > fork() if only for keeping the "logical correctness of fork()" however the > code never triggers. If we start with trylock we'll know whether people > will use it, since people will complain with a reason when needed; however > I still doubt whether a sane userspace device driver should fork() within > busy interaction with the device underneath.. I will refrain from commenting on the sanity or otherwise of doing that :-) Agree such a scenario seems unlikely in practice (and possibly unreasonable). Keeping the "logical correctness of fork()" still seems worthwhile to me, but if the added complexity/maintenance burden for an admittedly fairly specific feature is going to stop progress here I am happy to take the fail fork approach. I could then possibly fix it up as a future clean up to copy_pte_range(). Perhaps others have thoughts? > In all cases, please still consider to keep them in copy_nonpresent_pte() > (and if to rework, separating patches would be great). > > Thanks, > > -- > Peter Xu _______________________________________________ Nouveau mailing list Nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nouveau From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.1 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB3DC433B4 for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 13:12:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C83161355 for ; 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infradead.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;infradead.org; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nvidia.com; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of nvidia.com designates 216.228.112.34 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=216.228.112.34; helo=mail.nvidia.com; Received: from mail.nvidia.com (216.228.112.34) by DM6NAM11FT063.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.13.172.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.4129.25 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 May 2021 13:12:00 +0000 Received: from nvdebian.localnet (172.20.145.6) by HQMAIL107.nvidia.com (172.20.187.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 19 May 2021 13:11:57 +0000 From: Alistair Popple To: Peter Xu Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 5/8] mm: Device exclusive memory access Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 23:11:55 +1000 Message-ID: <2569629.VzlulnA7BY@nvdebian> In-Reply-To: References: <20210407084238.20443-1-apopple@nvidia.com> <2235357.HsqDk0zIjc@nvdebian> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; 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CTRY:US; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:mail.nvidia.com; PTR:schybrid03.nvidia.com; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(39860400002)(136003)(346002)(396003)(376002)(36840700001)(46966006)(33716001)(7636003)(82740400003)(5660300002)(36860700001)(356005)(316002)(36906005)(83380400001)(9686003)(47076005)(86362001)(478600001)(2906002)(336012)(9576002)(8676002)(26005)(8936002)(186003)(16526019)(7416002)(82310400003)(426003)(70206006)(54906003)(6916009)(70586007)(4326008)(39026012); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; X-OriginatorOrg: Nvidia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 May 2021 13:12:00.9280 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2dfe2fa5-c08a-45ec-dc52-08d91ac7b06d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a; Ip=[216.228.112.34]; Helo=[mail.nvidia.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6NAM11FT063.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR12MB4813 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: rcampbell@nvidia.com, willy@infradead.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, bsingharora@gmail.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, hch@infradead.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, jglisse@redhat.com, bskeggs@redhat.com, Jason Gunthorpe , jhubbard@nvidia.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org, Christoph Hellwig Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" On Wednesday, 19 May 2021 10:15:41 PM AEST Peter Xu wrote: > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 09:04:53PM +1000, Alistair Popple wrote: > > Failing fork() because we couldn't take a lock doesn't seem like the right > > approach though, especially as there is already existing code that > > retries. I get this adds complexity though, so would be happy to take a > > look at cleaning copy_pte_range() up in future. > > Yes, I proposed that as this one won't affect any existing applications > (unlike the existing ones) but only new userspace driver apps that will use > this new atomic feature. > > IMHO it'll be a pity to add extra complexity and maintainance burden into > fork() if only for keeping the "logical correctness of fork()" however the > code never triggers. If we start with trylock we'll know whether people > will use it, since people will complain with a reason when needed; however > I still doubt whether a sane userspace device driver should fork() within > busy interaction with the device underneath.. I will refrain from commenting on the sanity or otherwise of doing that :-) Agree such a scenario seems unlikely in practice (and possibly unreasonable). Keeping the "logical correctness of fork()" still seems worthwhile to me, but if the added complexity/maintenance burden for an admittedly fairly specific feature is going to stop progress here I am happy to take the fail fork approach. I could then possibly fix it up as a future clean up to copy_pte_range(). Perhaps others have thoughts? > In all cases, please still consider to keep them in copy_nonpresent_pte() > (and if to rework, separating patches would be great). > > Thanks, > > -- > Peter Xu