From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:09:10 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:09:00 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:20865 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:08:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:53:24 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org The latest version is always available at . Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces its symbol to Y. The interactive configurators remain stable; no bugs of any kind have been reported since 6 Jan. I'm waiting on an update of the probe tables from Giacomo Catenazzi before releasing 2.2.0. -- Eric S. Raymond Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule--and both commonly succeed, and are right... The United States has never developed an aristocracy really disinterested or an intelligentsia really intelligent. Its history is simply a record of vacillations between two gangs of frauds. --- H. L. Mencken From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:16:20 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:16:13 -0500 Received: from modemcable084.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.200.137.84]:21148 "EHLO xanadu.home") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:15:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:15:10 -0500 (EST) From: Nicolas Pitre X-X-Sender: To: "Eric S. Raymond" cc: lkml , Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > The latest version is always available at . > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > its symbol to Y. What happens if you compile a kernel for another machine? Or cross-compile? Nicolas From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:16:30 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:16:21 -0500 Received: from libra.cus.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.19]:21662 "EHLO libra.cus.cam.ac.uk") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:16:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:16:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Anton Altaparmakov To: "Eric S. Raymond" cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > The latest version is always available at . > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. > * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > its symbol to Y. > > The interactive configurators remain stable; no bugs of any kind have been > reported since 6 Jan. I'm waiting on an update of the probe tables from > Giacomo Catenazzi before releasing 2.2.0. I sometimes configure and compile kernels for different computers on my athlon due to the extremely fast compile time on the athlon. The autoprober would interfere here extremely badly. Is it disabled by default? I.e. if I do make menuconfig or make oldconfig will the autoprober temper with my choices? Best regards, Anton -- Anton Altaparmakov (replace at with @) Linux NTFS maintainer / WWW: http://linux-ntfs.sf.net/ ICQ: 8561279 / WWW: http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:40 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:23 -0500 Received: from zero.tech9.net ([209.61.188.187]:25351 "EHLO zero.tech9.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:10 -0500 Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available From: Robert Love To: esr@thyrsus.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.1 Date: 15 Jan 2002 15:27:31 -0500 Message-Id: <1011126452.8756.11.camel@phantasy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 2002-01-15 at 14:53, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > its symbol to Y. And when I compile a kernel for my Dreamcast? Or when I want to change rootfs? Or how I just don't want the configurator enforcing policy? Robert Love From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:26:30 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:26:22 -0500 Received: from www.deepbluesolutions.co.uk ([212.18.232.186]:34821 "EHLO caramon.arm.linux.org.uk") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:25:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:25:18 +0000 From: Russell King To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com>; from esr@thyrsus.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:53:24PM -0500 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:53:24PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > its symbol to Y. This seems like a backwards step. What's the reasoning for breaking the ability to configure the kernel for a completely different machine to the one that you're running the configuration/build on? Answers including Aunt Tillies or Penelopes won't be accepted. 8) -- Russell King (rmk@arm.linux.org.uk) The developer of ARM Linux http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/personal/aboutme.html From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:29:10 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:28:45 -0500 Received: from willow.seitz.com ([207.106.55.140]:57868 "EHLO willow.seitz.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:26:53 -0500 From: Ross Vandegrift Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:26:43 -0500 To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com>; from esr@thyrsus.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:53:24PM -0500 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > The interactive configurators remain stable; no bugs of any kind have been > reported since 6 Jan. I'm waiting on an update of the probe tables from > Giacomo Catenazzi before releasing 2.2.0. I tried CML2 (2.1.2) yesterday with Linux 2.4.17 and found that I couldn't turn on suppression ('S' didn't seem to toggle, only disable suppression, which was already off) and entering into a submenu marked FROZEN locked up the configurator. It seems the second issue is related to the first; if I move off of the "Inter or Processor type (FROZEN)" selection, I'm not allowed to go back and select it. However, when just starting, it is the default selection. If I then press 'S' I get the "Suppression turned off" message, but still cannot move the selection back onto "Intel or Processor type (FROZEN)". CTRL-C gets me back to a prompt, no other keys initiated a response. I'm using Python 2.0.1 with Slackware 8. Ross Vandegrift ross@willow.seitz.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:34:10 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:34:03 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:27777 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:33:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:18:04 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Nicolas Pitre Cc: lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115151804.A6308@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from nico@cam.org on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:15:10PM -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Nicolas Pitre : > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > its symbol to Y. > > What happens if you compile a kernel for another machine? Or cross-compile? In that case you can't use the autoconfigurator anyway. You're going to have to make sure by hand that the controller, bus type, and file system code for your root device are hard-compiled in. (This is at least no worse off than you were under CML1.) Rob Landley pointed out correctly that the vitality flag was not actually solving this problem, and it was an ugly wart on the language. Instead, there's a symbol property "BOOTABLE" in the new rulebase that is attached to IDE and SCSI hardware symbols that are controllers for what could be boot devices. One of the remaining limitations of the autoconfigurator is that it only knows how to detect IDE and SCSI boot devices. I want to be able to make it nail NFS and USB storage being used as root, but it's not there yet. -- Eric S. Raymond The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:41:22 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:41:10 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:31105 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:40:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:45 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Anton Altaparmakov Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115152445.B6308@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Anton Altaparmakov , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from aia21@cus.cam.ac.uk on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 08:16:13PM +0000 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Anton Altaparmakov : > I sometimes configure and compile > kernels for different computers on my athlon due to the extremely fast > compile time on the athlon. The autoprober would interfere here extremely > badly. Is it disabled by default? I.e. if I do make menuconfig or make > oldconfig will the autoprober temper with my choices? Absolutely not. To invoke the autoconfigurator, you do one of two things: `make autoconfigure' This runs the autoconfigurator in standalone mode. This gives you an entire configuration, ready to build with. `make autoprobe {config,menuconfig,xconfig}' This runs the autoconfigurator in probe mode, which gives you a report on facilities found (without making assumptions about facilities not found). This report gets fed to your interactive configurator, which then proceeds not to bother you with questions for which the autoprobe report already gave it answers. The ordinary make {config,menuconfig,xconfig} behaves as it always did. -- Eric S. Raymond If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:42:00 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:41:51 -0500 Received: from modemcable084.137-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca ([24.200.137.84]:27036 "EHLO xanadu.home") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:41:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:41:31 -0500 (EST) From: Nicolas Pitre X-X-Sender: To: "Eric S. Raymond" cc: lkml , Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <20020115151804.A6308@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Nicolas Pitre : > > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > > its symbol to Y. > > > > What happens if you compile a kernel for another machine? Or cross-compile? > > In that case you can't use the autoconfigurator anyway. Sorry. I passed over "autoprober" too fast. As long as auto* stuff can be turned off that fine. Nicolas From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:10:50 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:10:40 -0500 Received: from warden.digitalinsight.com ([208.29.163.2]:53726 "HELO warden.diginsite.com") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:10:28 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:09:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Lang To: "Eric S. Raymond" cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > its symbol to Y. can you override this autodetect? (it may not be valid if you are building on one machine for another) David Lang From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:15:57 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:15:47 -0500 Received: from tangens.hometree.net ([212.34.181.34]:32190 "EHLO mail.hometree.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:15:40 -0500 To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Path: forge.intermeta.de!not-for-mail From: "Henning P. Schmiedehausen" Newsgroups: hometree.linux.kernel Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:15:39 +0000 (UTC) Organization: INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115151804.A6308@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: hps@intermeta.de NNTP-Posting-Host: forge.intermeta.de X-Trace: tangens.hometree.net 1011140139 29678 212.34.181.4 (16 Jan 2002 00:15:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@intermeta.de NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:15:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Copyright: (C) 1996-2002 Henning Schmiedehausen X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org "Eric S. Raymond" writes: >Rob Landley pointed out correctly that the vitality flag was not >actually solving this problem, and it was an ugly wart on the >language. Instead, there's a symbol property "BOOTABLE" in the new >rulebase that is attached to IDE and SCSI hardware symbols that are >controllers for what could be boot devices. Wasn't this SunOS (Larry?): "Can't boot a typewriter." Actually, some can. Or maybe their current incarnation, the serial port. Will you make every thinkable device "BOOTABLE"? USB? Regards Henning -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- Geschaeftsfuehrer INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH hps@intermeta.de Am Schwabachgrund 22 Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0 info@intermeta.de D-91054 Buckenhof Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:39:07 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:38:59 -0500 Received: from wire.cadcamlab.org ([156.26.20.181]:44551 "EHLO wire.cadcamlab.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:38:47 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:38:39 -0600 To: Russell King Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116003839.GB2067@cadcamlab.org> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i From: Peter Samuelson Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org [esr] > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > its symbol to Y. [Russell King] > This seems like a backwards step. What's the reasoning for breaking > the ability to configure the kernel for a completely different > machine to the one that you're running the configuration/build on? As Eric keeps saying - autoconfigure is OPTIONAL. It is merely one way to generate a .config, not the only way. > Answers including Aunt Tillies or Penelopes won't be accepted. 8) (: Peter From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:42:01 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:41:53 -0500 Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.95.108]:7103 "EHLO femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:41:38 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Landley To: Nicolas Pitre , "Eric S. Raymond" Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:19:07 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] Cc: lkml , In-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: <20020116034137.CRFB26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tuesday 15 January 2002 03:41 pm, Nicolas Pitre wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > Nicolas Pitre : > > > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > > > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > > > its symbol to Y. > > > > > > What happens if you compile a kernel for another machine? Or > > > cross-compile? > > > > In that case you can't use the autoconfigurator anyway. > > Sorry. I passed over "autoprober" too fast. As long as auto* stuff can > be turned off that fine. It's optional. I -STILL- can't figure out why the autoprober doesn't just look in /proc/mounts to figure out who and what our root device and filesystem are. I need to set up a system that boots to an initrd and puts the root device lives on a samba server just to confuse eric's autoprober. Hmmm... I wonder if that would work? :) Rob From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:45:33 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:45:19 -0500 Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.95.108]:18112 "EHLO femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:41:48 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Landley To: esr@thyrsus.com, Anton Altaparmakov Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:30:28 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152445.B6308@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <20020115152445.B6308@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: <20020116034147.CRIZ26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tuesday 15 January 2002 03:24 pm, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > To invoke the autoconfigurator, you do one of two things: > > `make autoconfigure' > This runs the autoconfigurator in standalone mode. This gives you > an entire configuration, ready to build with. > > `make autoprobe {config,menuconfig,xconfig}' > This runs the autoconfigurator in probe mode, which gives you > a report on facilities found (without making assumptions about facilities > not found). This report gets fed to your interactive configurator, which > then proceeds not to bother you with questions for which the autoprobe > report already gave it answers. > > The ordinary make {config,menuconfig,xconfig} behaves as it always did. Eric and I disagree on the behavior of "make autoprobe". He likes the concept of "freezing" symbols, which says if the autoprober detected a configuration setting, the question shouldn't show up and give you the opportunity to disagree. (Not confusing Aunt Tillie, with her LCSE from CompTIA (and apparently has recently moved in with Alan Cox), with questions that she's more likely to screw up than improve.) Personally, I think that if you turn on "expert" mode, you should be able to override anything. I haven't complained much because there is an easy workaround: Although the autoprober puts the "frozen" flag on the symbols it finds, menuconfig doesn't save them out :). So just run menuconfig twice and you can edit everything that got autoprobed... The user interface still has a couple of teething troubles, but they're mostly in the new stuff that CML1 never attempted to do (like autoconfig). (Now the standard configuration DOES freeze, and therefore hide, the "which architecture am I building for" question. It would be nice if "make menuconfig" would let you do a cross-compile simply by selecting your architecture. I understand why this isn't supported though: to properly build most architectures other than X86, you have to apply patches to Linus's tree. And the make would have to tell gcc to cross-compile, which most gcc builds don't know how to do and the makefiles don't seem to support anyway...) Rob From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:45:34 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:45:22 -0500 Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com ([24.0.95.108]:40384 "EHLO femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:41:51 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Landley To: Russell King , "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:37:57 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: <20020116034150.CRKF26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tuesday 15 January 2002 03:25 pm, Russell King wrote: > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:53:24PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > its symbol to Y. > > This seems like a backwards step. What's the reasoning for breaking the > ability to configure the kernel for a completely different machine to the > one that you're running the configuration/build on? He didn't. If you want to do that, run "make menuconfig" instead of "make autoconfigure". Autoprobing is just another tool at your disposal, you don't have to use it. And you can probe for your hardware and then menuconfig what it found (run "make autoconfig menuconfig"., and see my previous post for a small gripe about this. :) > Answers including Aunt Tillies or Penelopes won't be accepted. 8) Trust me, if I thought there was ANY code I could write that would make cute single women start using the Linux kernel en masse... Right now I'm going for reformed MCSEs who are still largely clueless but now have Linux+ certification and a boss who wants to spend his department's six figure budget on something OTHER than a microsoft audit. Autoprobing might help us convert a few of that crowd. Rob From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:04:55 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:04:45 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:34945 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:04:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:48:21 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Rob Landley Cc: Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115224821.A4658@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Rob Landley , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020116034137.CRFB26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020116034137.CRFB26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>; from landley@trommello.org on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:19:07PM -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Rob Landley : > I -STILL- can't figure out why the autoprober doesn't just look in > /proc/mounts to figure out who and what our root device and filesystem are. The version I just released does exactly that. Well, not exactly; it actually looks at fstab -- /proc/mounts gives you '/dev/root' rather than a physical device name in the root entry. > I need to set up a system that boots to an initrd and puts the root > device lives on a samba server just to confuse eric's autoprober. > Hmmm... I wonder if that would work? :) No. It only knows about IDE and SCSI root devices at the moment. As I learn how to identify other kinds of root volume it will get smarter. -- Eric S. Raymond The IRS has become morally corrupted by the enormous power which we in Congress have unwisely entrusted to it. Too often it acts like a Gestapo preying upon defenseless citizens. -- Senator Edward V. Long From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:15:36 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:15:27 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:38785 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:15:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:58:36 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Rob Landley Cc: Anton Altaparmakov , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115225836.B4658@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Rob Landley , Anton Altaparmakov , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152445.B6308@thyrsus.com> <20020116034147.CRIZ26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020116034147.CRIZ26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>; from landley@trommello.org on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:30:28PM -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Rob Landley : > Eric and I disagree on the behavior of "make autoprobe". He likes the > concept of "freezing" symbols, which says if the autoprober detected a > configuration setting, the question shouldn't show up and give you the > opportunity to disagree. (Not confusing Aunt Tillie, with her LCSE from > CompTIA (and apparently has recently moved in with Alan Cox), with questions > that she's more likely to screw up than improve.) Note, everyone else, that the freezing only happens on "make autoprobe". The config.out that "make autoconfigure" writes is not frozen. > Personally, I think that if you turn on "expert" mode, you should be > able to override anything. I haven't complained much because there > is an easy workaround: Although the autoprober puts the "frozen" > flag on the symbols it finds, menuconfig doesn't save them out :). Correction: menuconfig *does* save out frozen symbols, but it saves them unfrozen. > So just run menuconfig twice and you can edit everything that got > autoprobed... This "workaround" is entirely intentional. > (Now the standard configuration DOES freeze, and therefore hide, the > "which architecture am I building for" question. It would be nice > if "make menuconfig" would let you do a cross-compile simply by > selecting your architecture. I understand why this isn't supported > though: to properly build most architectures other than X86, you > have to apply patches to Linus's tree. And the make would have to > tell gcc to cross-compile, which most gcc builds don't know how to > do and the makefiles don't seem to support anyway...) Actually, this kind of cross-configuration is already fully supported. The normal way of calling the configurator, through the Makefile, passes -D$(ARCH) -- but if you call it without an architecture symbol frozen by command-line option, architecture will be the first question you're asked. -- Eric S. Raymond All forms of government are pernicious, including good government. -- Edward Abbey From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:18:46 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:18:36 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:40065 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:18:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:02:11 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Ross Vandegrift Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Ross Vandegrift , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com>; from ross@willow.seitz.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:26:43PM -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Ross Vandegrift : > I tried CML2 (2.1.2) yesterday with Linux 2.4.17 and found that I > couldn't turn on suppression ('S' didn't seem to toggle, only > disable suppression, which was already off) and entering into a > submenu marked FROZEN locked up the configurator. I'd sure like to know how you managed this. Since 2.1.2 frozen symbols are no longer supposed to be visible at all. Can you reproduce this? Can you give me the recipe for reproducing it? -- Eric S. Raymond Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable...A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass: he is actually ill. -- H. L. Mencken From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:30:34 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:30:25 -0500 Received: from wire.cadcamlab.org ([156.26.20.181]:5385 "EHLO wire.cadcamlab.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:30:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:29:42 -0600 To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Rob Landley , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116062942.GC2067@cadcamlab.org> In-Reply-To: <20020116034137.CRFB26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> <20020115224821.A4658@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020115224821.A4658@thyrsus.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i From: Peter Samuelson Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org [esr] > The version I just released does exactly that. Well, not exactly; it > actually looks at fstab -- /proc/mounts gives you '/dev/root' rather > than a physical device name in the root entry. /etc/fstab is hardly guaranteed to be accurate either. The kernel mounts the root device based on its command line and any pivot_root() calls you make, not based on /etc/fstab. [In practice, I imagine most people don't lie to fstab. The fsck init script would get annoyed.] But the horse's mouth, in this case, is /proc/sys/kernel/real-root-dev, a 16-bit decimal int which represents a device number in MAJOR*256+MINOR format. There *may* also the 'root=' asciiz string in /proc/cmdline, which will be a 4-digit hex number, but that is not reliable - because of pivot_root() among other things. On my system, real-root-dev gives 8453, which means /dev/hde5, which is on ide2. According to /proc/ide/ide2/config, it is a PCI device of type 105a:4d30 [Promise Ultra100], so you can derive CONFIG_BLK_DEV_PDC202XX as well as CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDEDISK. Peter From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:36:34 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:36:24 -0500 Received: from leibniz.math.psu.edu ([146.186.130.2]:63974 "EHLO math.psu.edu") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:36:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:36:12 -0500 (EST) From: Alexander Viro To: Peter Samuelson cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , Rob Landley , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <20020116062942.GC2067@cadcamlab.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Peter Samuelson wrote: > But the horse's mouth, in this case, is /proc/sys/kernel/real-root-dev, > a 16-bit decimal int which represents a device number in ... and is there only if initrd is compiled in. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:49:37 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:49:27 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:38528 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:49:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:32:50 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Peter Samuelson Cc: Rob Landley , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116013250.A3880@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Peter Samuelson , Rob Landley , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020116034137.CRFB26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> <20020115224821.A4658@thyrsus.com> <20020116062942.GC2067@cadcamlab.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020116062942.GC2067@cadcamlab.org>; from peter@cadcamlab.org on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:29:42AM -0600 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Peter Samuelson : > > The version I just released does exactly that. Well, not exactly; it > > actually looks at fstab -- /proc/mounts gives you '/dev/root' rather > > than a physical device name in the root entry. > > /etc/fstab is hardly guaranteed to be accurate either. The kernel > mounts the root device based on its command line and any pivot_root() > calls you make, not based on /etc/fstab. > > [In practice, I imagine most people don't lie to fstab. The fsck init > script would get annoyed.] Agreed. The root device getting overridden by either of these means is well into the territory an autoconfigurator cannot be reasonably expected to cover. -- Eric S. Raymond Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable...A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass: he is actually ill. -- H. L. Mencken From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:14:20 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:14:09 -0500 Received: from wire.cadcamlab.org ([156.26.20.181]:23817 "EHLO wire.cadcamlab.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:13:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:13:46 -0600 To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Rob Landley , Nicolas Pitre , lkml , kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116071346.GD2067@cadcamlab.org> In-Reply-To: <20020116034137.CRFB26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> <20020115224821.A4658@thyrsus.com> <20020116062942.GC2067@cadcamlab.org> <20020116013250.A3880@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020116013250.A3880@thyrsus.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i From: Peter Samuelson Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Forgot this point earlier.. [esr] > > > The version I just released does exactly that. Well, not exactly; it > > > actually looks at fstab -- /proc/mounts gives you '/dev/root' rather > > > than a physical device name in the root entry. IMHO you should still use /proc/mounts to determine the root filesystem type. In my fstab file I don't mention ext3 anywhere - I use 'auto' as fs type instead. That way my ext3 partitions will mount correctly when I boot a non-ext3-capable kernel. (They mount as ext2 in that case.) Peter From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:39:02 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:38:53 -0500 Received: from willow.seitz.com ([207.106.55.140]:32272 "EHLO willow.seitz.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:38:45 -0500 From: Ross Vandegrift Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:38:40 -0500 To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116113840.A16168@willow.seitz.com> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com> <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com>; from esr@thyrsus.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:02:11PM -0500 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:02:11PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Ross Vandegrift : > > I tried CML2 (2.1.2) yesterday with Linux 2.4.17 and found that I > > couldn't turn on suppression ('S' didn't seem to toggle, only > > disable suppression, which was already off) and entering into a > > submenu marked FROZEN locked up the configurator. > > I'd sure like to know how you managed this. Since 2.1.2 frozen symbols > are no longer supposed to be visible at all. Can you reproduce this? > Can you give me the recipe for reproducing it? Here's what I do to reproduce it: $ tar yxvf linux-2.4.17.tar.bz2 ... $ cd cml2-2.1.2 $ ./install-cml2 /home/ross/linux Examining your build environment... Good. You have Python 2.x installed as 'python' already. Python looks sane... Good, your python has curses support linked in. Good, your python has Tk support linked in. Compiling file list... Operating on /home/ross/linux... Installing new files... Merging in CML2 help texts from Configure.help... Modifying configuration productions... You are ready to go, cd to /home/ross/linux. $ cd ../linux $ make config At this point the rules are compiled and a dialog box indicates that Suppression has been turned off (press any key to continue). I hit any key and am presented with the first menu. The first selection at the top of the screen is "Intel or Processor type (FROZEN)" and it is highlighted as the default selection. If I press enter *boom*, I'm locked solid. If I move the active selection off of this menu item, I can't move back to it, though it remains visible. If I enter a submenu, the frozen processor type menu is gone. It's reproduceable with fresh trees (as above), existing trees, and at least linux 2.4.12 and linux 2.4.17 (the two kernel tarballs I have lying around). I'm planning on trying this on a Debian testing box I have at work at some point. Ross Vandegrift ross@willow.seitz.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:59:34 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:59:25 -0500 Received: from willow.seitz.com ([207.106.55.140]:38416 "EHLO willow.seitz.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:59:19 -0500 From: Ross Vandegrift Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:59:16 -0500 To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116115916.B16507@willow.seitz.com> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com> <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com> <20020116113840.A16168@willow.seitz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020116113840.A16168@willow.seitz.com>; from ross@willow.seitz.com on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:38:40AM -0500 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 11:38:40AM -0500, Ross Vandegrift wrote: [snip] > I'm planning on trying this on a Debian testing box I have at work at some > point. Just verified the same process works on Debian testing, as well as with cml2-2.1.3. Ross Vandegrift ross@willow.seitz.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:48:09 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:48:00 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:37505 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:47:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:31:44 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Horst von Brand Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116163144.D12306@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200201161506.g0GF6Xjs001294@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200201161506.g0GF6Xjs001294@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de>; from brand@jupiter.cs.uni-dortmund.de on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 04:06:33PM +0100 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Horst von Brand : > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > > * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. > > * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > its symbol to Y. > > Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it > up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... Oh, nonsense. You can do this just fine with any of the manual configurators. Now repeat after me, Horst: The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. : : : : : Please continue until insight penetrates your skull. Thank you. -- Eric S. Raymond A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- Robert A. Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love" From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:40:21 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:37:17 -0500 Received: from waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de ([129.217.4.42]:18900 "EHLO waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:36:59 -0500 Message-Id: <200201161506.g0GF6Xjs001294@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: Message from "Eric S. Raymond" of "Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:53:24 EST." <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:06:33 +0100 From: Horst von Brand Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org "Eric S. Raymond" said: > The latest version is always available at . > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. > * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > its symbol to Y. Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... -- Horst von Brand http://counter.li.org # 22616 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:57:29 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:57:20 -0500 Received: from waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de ([129.217.4.42]:23765 "EHLO waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:57:05 -0500 Message-Id: <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: Message from "Eric S. Raymond" of "Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:31:44 EST." <20020116163144.D12306@thyrsus.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:56:46 +0100 From: Horst von Brand Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org "Eric S. Raymond" said: > Horst von Brand : > > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > > > * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. > > > * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. > > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > > its symbol to Y. > > > > Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it > > up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... > > Oh, nonsense. You can do this just fine with any of the manual > configurators. Whatever happened to "Do exactly as CML1 does; leave fixes and extensions for later"? If you put the kitchen sink into it, it _won't_ go into the standard kernel. > Now repeat after me, Horst: > > The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. It isn't "optional", it is builtin. It doesn't matter if somebody uses it or nobody does, it will be there. And AFAIU what you have said, you are modifiying CML2 (or at least the rulebase) for the sake of it. This is _not_ what had been agreed on the matter. -- Horst von Brand http://counter.li.org # 22616 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:04:33 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:04:10 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:42625 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:03:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:47:58 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Horst von Brand Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de>; from brand@jupiter.cs.uni-dortmund.de on Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 10:56:46PM +0100 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Horst von Brand : > Whatever happened to "Do exactly as CML1 does; leave fixes and extensions > for later"? If you put the kitchen sink into it, it _won't_ go into the > standard kernel. If you stick to the CML1-equivalent facilities, you'll get almost CML1-equivalent behavior. It's "almost" partly because the hardware symbols have more platform- and bus-type guards than they used to -- but mostly because I have not emulated the numerous CML1 bugs. -- Eric S. Raymond The people cannot delegate to government the power to do anything which would be unlawful for them to do themselves. -- John Locke, "A Treatise Concerning Civil Government" From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:37:28 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:37:19 -0500 Received: from warden.digitalinsight.com ([208.29.163.2]:7123 "HELO warden.diginsite.com") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:37:09 -0500 From: David Lang To: "Eric S. Raymond" Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:36:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <20020116163144.D12306@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Eric, the way you worded the change report it sounded to many of us as if you were making the autoprober mandatory for detecting the root filesystem. That's why it spawned so many messages like this (including one from me yesterday) you should have added something in the changelog entry that said that this autoprobe only happened when you do an autoconfigure, as it is it implies that is is for every variaty of make *config. I understand why you are frustrated with the response, but it's not a case of people having thick skulls it's a case of you leaving out critical info from you changelog so people reading it without your mindset see it saying something that you didn't mean. remember most of us have no idea why the 'vitality' flag was there in the first place so we can't imply a limit on the autoprober that is replacing it. David Lang On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:31:44 -0500 > From: Eric S. Raymond > To: Horst von Brand > Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available > > Horst von Brand : > > > Release 2.1.3: Tue Jan 15 14:41:45 EST 2002 > > > * Resync with 2.4.18-pre3 and 2.5.2. > > > * It is now possible to declare explicit saveability predicates. > > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > > its symbol to Y. > > > > Great! Now I can't configure a kernel for ext3 only on an ext2 box. Keep it > > up! As it goes, we can safely forget about CML2... > > Oh, nonsense. You can do this just fine with any of the manual configurators. > Now repeat after me, Horst: > > The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. > > The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. > > The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. > > The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. > > The autoconfigurator is *optional*, not required. > > : : : : : > > Please continue until insight penetrates your skull. Thank you. > -- > Eric S. Raymond > > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, > butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance > accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give > orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, > pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, > die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. > -- Robert A. Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love" > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:18:48 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:18:39 -0500 Received: from mailhost.nmt.edu ([129.138.4.52]:21775 "EHLO mailhost.nmt.edu") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:18:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:18:05 -0700 From: Val Henson To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116181805.W24778@boardwalk> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <20020116034150.CRKF26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020116034150.CRKF26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there>; from landley@trommello.org on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:37:57PM -0500 Favorite-Color: Polka dot Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:37:57PM -0500, Rob Landley wrote: > > Answers including Aunt Tillies or Penelopes won't be accepted. 8) > > Trust me, if I thought there was ANY code I could write that would make cute > single women start using the Linux kernel en masse... The above comment is a good example of one reason cute single women tend not to use Linux. -VAL From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:26:26 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:26:22 -0500 Received: from dell-paw-3.cambridge.redhat.com ([195.224.55.237]:44782 "EHLO passion.cambridge.redhat.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:26:11 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: David Woodhouse X-Accept-Language: en_GB In-Reply-To: <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> To: esr@thyrsus.com Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 01:26:02 +0000 Message-ID: <26592.1011230762@redhat.com> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org esr@thyrsus.com said: > If you stick to the CML1-equivalent facilities, you'll get almost > CML1-equivalent behavior. It's "almost" partly because the hardware > symbols have more platform- and bus-type guards than they used to -- > but mostly because I have not emulated the numerous CML1 bugs. I'm concerned by the 'platform- and bus-type guards' to which you refer. Could you give some examples where the behaviour has changed? Lots of embedded non-x86, non-ISA boxen have ISA network chips glued in somehow, for example. I hope you haven't helpfully stopped that from working. -- dwmw2 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:00:39 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:00:20 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:54402 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:00:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:43:45 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: David Woodhouse Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , David Woodhouse , Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <26592.1011230762@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <26592.1011230762@redhat.com>; from dwmw2@infradead.org on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 01:26:02AM +0000 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org David Woodhouse : > I'm concerned by the 'platform- and bus-type guards' to which you refer. > Could you give some examples where the behaviour has changed? Lots of > embedded non-x86, non-ISA boxen have ISA network chips glued in somehow, > for example. I hope you haven't helpfully stopped that from working. No, I haven't. Wha's happened is that I, and others, have merged in a lot of information about what cards can be plugged into which platforms. That information has been turned into dependency/visibility rules. The generic hardware that can be used on several platforms has bus guards. The on-board hardware has platform guards. Some cards that can only be used in single-platform buses have platform guards as well. Here are some examples from the network cards... Bus guards: unless MCA suppress dependent ELMC ELMC_II ULTRAMCA SKMC NE2_MCA IBMLANA unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress EL1 EL2 ELPLUS EL16 WD80x3 APOLLO_ELPLUS unless ISA_PNP suppress CONFIG_3C515 unless EISA suppress dependent LNE390 NE3210 unless ISA_CLASSIC or EISA suppress AC3200 unless ISA_CLASSIC or ISA_PNP!=n or EISA or MCA suppress EL3 # 3c509 source unless EISA or PCI or CARDBUS!=n suppress VORTEX # Vortex help screen unless ISA_CLASSIC or ISA_PNP!=n or PCI suppress LANCE # Lance source unless SPARC or SPARC64 suppress SUNLANCE unless EISA suppress dependent ULTRA32 # SMC-ULTRA32 unless PCI suppress dependent PCNET32 DE2104X TULIP EEPRO100 NE2K_PCI CONFIG_8139TOO CONFIG_8139TOO_8129 WINBOND_840 HAPPYMEAL ADAPTEC_STARFIRE FEALNX NATSEMI VIA_RHINE EPIC100 SUNDANCE unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress dependent NI52 NI65 unless EISA or PCI suppress DE4X5 DGRS DM9102 TLAN unless ISA_CLASSIC or EISA or MCA suppress DEPCA #depca.c unless ISA_CLASSIC or EISA or MCA suppress HP100 unless ISA_CLASSIC or MCA suppress AT1700 #at1700.c unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress dependent NI5010 #ni5010.c unless ISA_CLASSIC suppress dependent E2100 EWRK3 EEXPRESS EEXPRESS_PRO FMV18X HPLAN HPLAN_PLUS ETH16I SEEQ8005 SK_G16 ES3210 APRICOT unless ISA_CLASSIC or ISA_PNP suppress NE2000 unless ISA_PNP suppress ULTRA unless ISA_PNP or CARDBUS suppress I82365 Platform guards: unless SGI_IP27 or IA64_SGI_SN1 suppress SGI_IOC3_ETH unless X86 suppress dependent ATP unless X86 or ALPHA or PPC suppress NET_VENDOR_3COM unless X86 or ALPHA suppress LANCE NET_VENDOR_SMC NET_VENDOR_RACAL unless SPARC suppress dependent HAPPYMEAL SUNBMAC SUNQE unless DECSTATION suppress dependent DECLANCE unless BAGET_MIPS suppress dependent BAGETLANCE unless (CONFIG_8xx or CONFIG_8260) suppress SCC_ENET FEC_ENET ENET_BIG_BUFFERS unless AMIGA and PCMCIA!=n suppress dependent APNE unless APOLLO suppress dependent APOLLO_ELPLUS unless MAC suppress dependent MAC8390 MACSONIC SMC9194 MAC89x0 MACMACE CS89x0 unless ATARI suppress dependent ATARILANCE unless SUN3X or SPARC suppress SUN3LANCE unless SUN3 suppress dependent SUN3_82586 unless HP300 suppress dependent HPLANCE unless SUPERH suppress dependent STNIC Compound bus *and* platform guard: unless (X86 or ALPHA) and PARPORT!=n suppress dependent NET_POCKET In a typical situation, you're going to enable platform and bus symbols early. All these guards will drastically filter the questions you have to answer later. The overall objective is to reduce the questions a human user asks to those strictly relevant to his or her configuration. Now we're closing in on the second-stage objective, which is to automatically discover (via an *optional* program...kids, remember that word *optional*) so much about the configuration that the user need only answer questions that are genuinely about policy and capabilities. -- Eric S. Raymond The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner. -- Report of the Subcommittee On The Constitution of the Committee On The Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, second session (February, 1982), SuDoc# Y4.J 89/2: Ar 5/5 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:32:02 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:31:53 -0500 Received: from femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com ([24.254.60.26]:55457 "EHLO femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:31:36 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Rob Landley To: Ross Vandegrift , "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:29:32 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com> <20020116113840.A16168@willow.seitz.com> In-Reply-To: <20020116113840.A16168@willow.seitz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: <20020117023135.GSHC21740.femail36.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wednesday 16 January 2002 11:38 am, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > > At this point the rules are compiled and a dialog box indicates that > Suppression has been turned off (press any key to continue). I hit any key > and am presented with the first menu. Ah, I understand the bug. That dialog indicates that your existing .config (the one it loaded the symbols from) is setting a symbol that is ordinarily suppressed. (One your dependency list thinks you shouldn't have access to, like a piece of Alpha-only hardware during an X86 configuration session.) It found it, noticed that setting it would be inconsistent with the existing rulebase's dependencies, and let you know that it had to turn suppression off in order to access it. That's not the bug (although it implies that either your .config is really weird, or there's a rulebase error suppressing something that shouldn't be). It just triggers the bug. Turning off suppression will also make frozen symbols show up, as you noticed. This is where an old bug I already got Eric to patch resurfaced. :) The "menu freezing" bug is a menuconfig display problem. It happens because you can't select a frozen symbol: it skips to the next one when you cursor over it. If EVERY symbol in the menu is frozen, when you first try to display the menu it goes into an endless loop trying to figure our what symbol to put the cursor on. I told Eric about this earlier, and he hid all the frozen symbols (which he intended to do anyway). A menu with no visible symbols won't show up. But when you turn off suppression, the menu gets unhidden, and the bug comes back. Eric, you wanna take another swing at it? Rob From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:54:33 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:54:23 -0500 Received: from dell-paw-3.cambridge.redhat.com ([195.224.55.237]:43511 "EHLO passion.cambridge.redhat.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:54:07 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: David Woodhouse X-Accept-Language: en_GB In-Reply-To: <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <26592.1011230762@redhat.com> To: esr@thyrsus.com Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:53:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3515.1011257639@redhat.com> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org esr@thyrsus.com said: > Wha's happened is that I, and others, have merged in a lot of > information about what cards can be plugged into which platforms. > That information has been turned into dependency/visibility rules. > Here are some examples from the network cards... Hmmm, yes. I think I see at least two errors in that small selection, if I understand it correctly. But as these are obviously behavioural changes, and you've said you won't make behavioural changes in the first push of CML2 to Linus, we can safely ignore them for now - they're lined up for your second wave of patches, right? This is why the behavioural changes must be separate from the initial conversion, btw. They _do_ need separate attention from the gruntwork of translating CML1 to CML2. -- dwmw2 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:55:01 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:54:52 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:15240 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:54:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:37:57 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: David Woodhouse Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020117083757.A7299@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , David Woodhouse , Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <26592.1011230762@redhat.com> <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <3515.1011257639@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3515.1011257639@redhat.com>; from dwmw2@infradead.org on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 08:53:59AM +0000 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org David Woodhouse : > Hmmm, yes. I think I see at least two errors in that small selection, if I > understand it correctly. Please help me correct them. > But as these are obviously behavioural changes, and > you've said you won't make behavioural changes in the first push of CML2 to > Linus, we can safely ignore them for now - they're lined up for your second > wave of patches, right? The definition of "behavioral change" you're implying here is so narrow that if I interpreted the "agreement" that way", CML2 could do nothing worthwhile. Get real, please. -- Eric S. Raymond The danger (where there is any) from armed citizens, is only to the *government*, not to *society*; and as long as they have nothing to revenge in the government (which they cannot have while it is in their own hands) there are many advantages in their being accustomed to the use of arms, and no possible disadvantage. -- Joel Barlow, "Advice to the Privileged Orders", 1792-93 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:10:21 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:10:12 -0500 Received: from dell-paw-3.cambridge.redhat.com ([195.224.55.237]:9468 "EHLO passion.cambridge.redhat.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:10:00 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: David Woodhouse X-Accept-Language: en_GB In-Reply-To: <20020117083757.A7299@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <20020117083757.A7299@thyrsus.com> <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <26592.1011230762@redhat.com> <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <3515.1011257639@redhat.com> To: esr@thyrsus.com Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:09:52 +0000 Message-ID: <13681.1011276592@redhat.com> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org esr@thyrsus.com said: > Please help me correct them. No. I haven't the time or the inclination to audit the whole of the CML2 rule base to check for such things. Merge a version of CML2 that matches the CML1 rules as closely as can be expressed in CML2, then submit the 'improvements' later as separate changes - change one thing at a time just like everyone else does. Then I promise I'll look at the actual behavioural changes for you as you submit them and Cc them to linux-kernel. > The definition of "behavioral change" you're implying here is so > narrow that if I interpreted the "agreement" that way", CML2 could do > nothing worthwhile. Utter crap. CML2 makes them possible, and is a step in the right direction. I'm not suggesting that you never make these changes - just that you do them separately from the change in mechanism. Go read what our Lord and Master said about why he likes Al Viro's patches. Repeatedly, if needs be. -- dwmw2 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:46:21 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:46:11 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:29320 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:46:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:29:17 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: David Woodhouse Cc: Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020117092917.A7905@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , David Woodhouse , Horst von Brand , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <200201162156.g0GLukCj017833@tigger.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <20020116164758.F12306@thyrsus.com> <26592.1011230762@redhat.com> <20020116204345.A22055@thyrsus.com> <3515.1011257639@redhat.com> <20020117083757.A7299@thyrsus.com> <13681.1011276592@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <13681.1011276592@redhat.com>; from dwmw2@infradead.org on Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 02:09:52PM +0000 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org David Woodhouse : > Utter crap. CML2 makes them possible, and is a step in the right direction. > I'm not suggesting that you never make these changes - just that you do them > separately from the change in mechanism. Sorry, it's *way* too late for that. In fact, it was already way too late for that at the kernel summit last March when Linus issued his ukase. The "change in mechanism" phase of the project was essentially complete almost a year ago now. If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed this. The idea that a pure change in mechanism could ever have been cleanly separated from changes in behavior was a fantasy anyway. Large changes in a software architecture just don't work that way, as we rediscover every time a significant subsystem gets reworked to fix bugs. I have held off on many things that I think badly need to be done in order to pacify the conservative instincts of people like yourself -- for example, I think the device menus cry out to be reorganized on a functional basis rather than on the basis of internal distinctions like "block" vs. "character" devices that are pointless to anyone but a kernel implementor. But if attempting that implausibility of no behavioral changes is what you think I "agreed" to, we'd best both forget the "agreement" -- because it would be hypocrisy if I agreed falsely and an absurd, project-strangling shackle if I agreed sincerely. Continuity, avoiding gratuitous changes, and a good-faith effort to emulate the interfaces people are expecting is one thing; artificial stasis is entirely another. I'm doing my best to give you the former. You won't get the latter, no way, nohow. If you have spotted errors, the time to tell me about them is *now*. It's unfair to me and to other developers to artificially hold off until we pass some mythical point at which it will suddenly be OK for behavior to change. The real world doesn't work that way, and I am sure you are too experienced to believe it does. -- Eric S. Raymond If a thousand men were not to pay their tax-bills this year, that would ... [be] the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible. -- Henry David Thoreau From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:34:27 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:34:15 -0500 Received: from khms.westfalen.de ([62.153.201.243]:61895 "EHLO khms.westfalen.de") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:34:05 -0500 Date: 18 Jan 2002 08:48:00 +0200 From: kaih@khms.westfalen.de (Kai Henningsen) To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <8H5i6N9Hw-B@khms.westfalen.de> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available X-Mailer: CrossPoint v3.12d.kh8 R/C435 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: Organisation? Me?! Are you kidding? In-Reply-To: <20020116163144.D12306@thyrsus.com> X-No-Junk-Mail: I do not want to get *any* junk mail. Comment: Unsolicited commercial mail will incur an US$100 handling fee per received mail. X-Fix-Your-Modem: +++ATS2=255&WO1 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org david.lang@digitalinsight.com (David Lang) wrote on 16.01.02 in : > Eric, the way you worded the change report it sounded to many of us as if > you were making the autoprober mandatory for detecting the root > filesystem. > I understand why you are frustrated with the response, but it's not a case > of people having thick skulls it's a case of you leaving out critical info > from you changelog so people reading it without your mindset see it saying > something that you didn't mean. I agree that a different wording might have avoided this. But I also must say that paying even a little bit of attention on the part of the readers would also have avoided this. It is certainly not the first time the autoconfigurator has been discussed here, and it was made clear *every* *single* *time* that this is an optional thing, usually several times. This is not a case of witholding "critical info". This is a case of readers without any attention span. On a mailing list such as this, the number of such readers is highly disappointing. It feels just like Windows. In fact, I am beginning to suspect that some people protest something they full well *know* is not the case, just to stir up trouble. MfG Kai From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:33:27 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:33:08 -0500 Received: from willow.seitz.com ([207.106.55.140]:47115 "EHLO willow.seitz.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:32:57 -0500 From: Ross Vandegrift Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:32:53 -0500 To: "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020118133253.A14488@willow.seitz.com> In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com> <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com>; from esr@thyrsus.com on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 11:02:11PM -0500 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Eric, Finally got around to trying 2.1.6 - everything works great, and I'm really impressed! Looks like killer stuff. Two things: 1) I noticed you've been pining the lists for EISA information. I don't know a whole lot about EISA systems or anything, but I do have a 486 EISA board and an EISA network card I'd be willing to send you if you wanted a system to play around with. I don't use it anymore and it's just gathering dust in my basement. 2) It seems that searching is broken. I didn't see anything in TODO and couldn't find any bug reports on linux-kernel or kbuild-devel. Pressing '/' to search on any screen, for any text results in the following crash: Traceback (most recent call last): File "cml2/cmlconfigure.py", line 3312, in ? main(options, arguments) File "cml2/cmlconfigure.py", line 3218, in main curses.wrapper(curses_style_menu, config, banner) File "/usr/lib/python2.0/curses/wrapper.py", line 44, in wrapper res = apply(func, (stdscr,) + rest) File "cml2/cmlconfigure.py", line 1154, in __init__ self.interact(config) File "cml2/cmlconfigure.py", line 1782, in interact recompute = self.symbol_menu_command(cmd, sel_symbol) File "cml2/cmlconfigure.py", line 1535, in symbol_menu_command configuration.debug_emit(1, "hits: " + str(hits)) File "cml2/cmlsystem.py", line 134, in _newstr if symbol.frozen(): File "cml2/cmlsystem.py", line 154, in _frozen if symbol.iced: AttributeError: 'ConfigSymbol' instance has no attribute 'iced' make: *** [menuconfig] Error 1 Other than that, this look really awesome! Thanks, Ross Vandegrift ross@willow.seitz.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:19:21 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:19:11 -0500 Received: from dsl-213-023-039-080.arcor-ip.net ([213.23.39.80]:31369 "EHLO starship.berlin") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:19:00 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Daniel Phillips To: Rob Landley , Russell King , "Eric S. Raymond" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:22:35 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115202518.G1822@flint.arm.linux.org.uk> <20020116034150.CRKF26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> In-Reply-To: <20020116034150.CRKF26021.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@there> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message-Id: Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On January 15, 2002 08:37 pm, Rob Landley wrote: > On Tuesday 15 January 2002 03:25 pm, Russell King wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:53:24PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > * The `vitality' flag is gone from the language. Instead, the > > > autoprober detects the type of your root filesystem and forces > > > its symbol to Y. > > > > This seems like a backwards step. What's the reasoning for breaking the > > ability to configure the kernel for a completely different machine to the > > one that you're running the configuration/build on? > > He didn't. If you want to do that, run "make menuconfig" instead of "make > autoconfigure". I detect a slight lack of symmetry here, shouldn't it be "make autoconfig"? Pardon me if this has been beaten to^W^W discussed above. -- Daniel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:50:42 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:50:25 -0500 Received: from dsl254-112-233.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([216.254.112.233]:34980 "EHLO snark.thyrsus.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:49:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:31:54 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Ross Vandegrift Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available Message-ID: <20020122003154.B18290@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mail-Followup-To: "Eric S. Raymond" , Ross Vandegrift , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net In-Reply-To: <20020115145324.A5772@thyrsus.com> <20020115152643.A6846@willow.seitz.com> <20020115230211.A5177@thyrsus.com> <20020118133253.A14488@willow.seitz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020118133253.A14488@willow.seitz.com>; from ross@willow.seitz.com on Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 01:32:53PM -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Ross Vandegrift : > 1) I noticed you've been pining the lists for EISA information. I don't > know a whole lot about EISA systems or anything, but I do have a 486 EISA > board and an EISA network card I'd be willing to send you if you wanted a > system to play around with. I don't use it anymore and it's just gathering > dust in my basement. Thanks for the offer, but the question I was after has been answered. > 2) It seems that searching is broken. Got it, I think I've fixed this. -- Eric S. Raymond Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -- Abraham Lincoln From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 04:21:15 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 04:20:55 -0500 Received: from mail.ocs.com.au ([203.34.97.2]:12302 "HELO mail.ocs.com.au") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 04:20:47 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Keith Owens To: Giacomo Catenazzi Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:11:10 BST." <3C4D2CAE.5000702@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:20:33 +1100 Message-ID: <14937.1011691233@ocs3.intra.ocs.com.au> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:11:10 +0100, Giacomo Catenazzi wrote: >If autoconfigure will go in the kernel, I have not problems on >filenames, but when I initially created it, I thinked ev. to >distribuite it as a package. Here the name matter. > >IMHO longer filename ia a good things (iff normal user should >not type it). autoconf autoconfigure: symlinks $(CONFIG_SHELL) scripts/.... make autoconf == make autoconfigure. Watch out for the generated autoconf.h file, it might confuse some people. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:12:07 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:11:47 -0500 Received: from xsmtp.ethz.ch ([129.132.97.6]:21977 "EHLO xfe3.d.ethz.ch") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:11:40 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4D3A4A.6020603@debian.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:09:14 +0100 From: Giacomo Catenazzi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Owens CC: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 10:11:38.0519 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E16DA70:01C1A32D] Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Keith Owens wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:11:10 +0100, > Giacomo Catenazzi wrote: > >>If autoconfigure will go in the kernel, I have not problems on >>filenames, but when I initially created it, I thinked ev. to >>distribuite it as a package. Here the name matter. >> >>IMHO longer filename ia a good things (iff normal user should >>not type it). >> > > autoconf autoconfigure: symlinks > $(CONFIG_SHELL) scripts/.... > > make autoconf == make autoconfigure. > > Watch out for the generated autoconf.h file, it might confuse some > people. > Where? I don't find it in: http://lxr.linux.no/search?v=2.4.17&string=autoconfigure giacomo From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:26:17 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:26:08 -0500 Received: from mail.ocs.com.au ([203.34.97.2]:23310 "HELO mail.ocs.com.au") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:26:00 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Keith Owens To: Giacomo Catenazzi Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:09:14 BST." <3C4D3A4A.6020603@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:25:48 +1100 Message-ID: <15312.1011695148@ocs3.intra.ocs.com.au> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:09:14 +0100, Giacomo Catenazzi wrote: >Keith Owens wrote: >> Watch out for the generated autoconf.h file, it might confuse some >> people. > >Where? > >I don't find it in: >http://lxr.linux.no/search?v=2.4.17&string=autoconfigure All the make *config entries generate include/linux/autoconf.h, it is the C representation of .config. Some people may think that autoconf.h is created by make autoconfig when it is really created by all *config steps. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:50:56 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:50:46 -0500 Received: from xsmtp.ethz.ch ([129.132.97.6]:39921 "EHLO xfe3.d.ethz.ch") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:50:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4D4366.9020406@debian.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:48:06 +0100 From: Giacomo Catenazzi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Owens CC: esr@thyrsus.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: <15312.1011695148@ocs3.intra.ocs.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 10:50:31.0344 (UTC) FILETIME=[9C8FB300:01C1A332] Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Keith Owens wrote: > > All the make *config entries generate include/linux/autoconf.h, it is > the C representation of .config. Some people may think that autoconf.h > is created by make autoconfig when it is really created by all *config > steps. > I know. My question: where do you find autoconf autoconfigure: symlinks $(SHELL_SCRIPT) script/... This can cause confution, but I don't find ut in the sources. BTW: I used 'make autoprobe' because of possible confutions, in latter version. Now Eric will use both 'make autoconfig' and 'make autoprobe'. The choice of name now is on Eric hands. Important is that *users* doesn't confuse it. giacomo From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:54:07 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:53:56 -0500 Received: from mail.ocs.com.au ([203.34.97.2]:7940 "HELO mail.ocs.com.au") by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:53:40 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Keith Owens To: Giacomo Catenazzi Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: CML2-2.1.3 is available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:48:06 BST." <3C4D4366.9020406@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:53:22 +1100 Message-ID: <15543.1011696802@ocs3.intra.ocs.com.au> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:48:06 +0100, Giacomo Catenazzi wrote: >My question: where do you find > >autoconf autoconfigure: symlinks > $(SHELL_SCRIPT) script/... You don't. That was an example of how you can have multiple targets pointing to the same code, it is not in kbuild yet. >BTW: I used 'make autoprobe' because of possible confutions, in >latter version. Now Eric will use both 'make autoconfig' and >'make autoprobe'. FWIW, I prefer autoprobe.