From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Hans Reiser Subject: Re: when distros do not support official Marcelo kernels they are not being team players (was Re: reiserfs on redhat advanced server?) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:45:44 +0300 Message-ID: <3E403488.9050408@namesys.com> References: <20030131122147.GE15359@marowsky-bree.de> <3E3A6D76.7080300@namesys.com> <86lm0xpmho.fsf@trasno.mitica> <3E3E7A95.1050908@namesys.com> <1044284001.15685.358.camel@tiny.suse.com> <3E3EBA3F.7060806@namesys.com> <1044300746.15684.428.camel@tiny.suse.com> <3E3EC7EC.8090005@namesys.com> <1044304857.15684.475.camel@tiny.suse.com> <3E3F0D5D.5070409@namesys.com> <20030204163609.GT19723@suse.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Errors-To: flx@namesys.com In-Reply-To: <20030204163609.GT19723@suse.de> List-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" To: Hubert Mantel Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ragnar_Kj=F8rstad?= , reiserfs-list@namesys.com Hubert Mantel wrote: >Hi, > >On Tue, Feb 04, Hans Reiser wrote: > > > >>A Marcelo kernel is NOT a randomly patched kernel. It is the OFFICIAL >>kernel that the community has picked to be the official kernel. SuSE >>and RedHat should be team players, and act accordingly. >> >> > >SuSE and Red Hat cannot use the official kernel, because it falls apart in >certain scenarios and is lacking lots of features and drivers. > >All the needed fixes and features are available. I would be happy if all >this stuff would be in the official kernel, so I would not need to >maintain several hundreds of patches. > Has Namesys just been lucky in regards to how responsive Marcelo has been for us? In my interactions with him, he has never once unreasonably rejected a patch or ignored a patch. > > > >>Linebackers should defend the quarterback, or convince the rest of the >>team to get a different quarterback. >> >> > >Sorry, I don't understand a single word in this sentence. > Sorry about the american football reference (quarterbacks are the team strategists and the players who most often have the ball, linebackers are guys who among other things keep him from being tackled (being tackled while you have the ball is bad)). The ability to download the latest official stable kernel is one of the great things about Linux. There are times when the latest official kernel is behind SuSE or RedHat, and there are times when it is ahead, as a result of different release schedules if nothing else. It seems that what RedHat puts on its Advanced Server CD is a kernel no reiserfs user would want to use if he had a choice. What SuSE has put on its CD is at the moment probably a faster and more stable for reiserfs kernel than the official kernel (I hope we will change that soon, but....). ReiserFS is just one kernel feature, and what is best for users is going to vary all over the place. Sometimes the distro kernel is more advanced for some feature, sometimes the official kernel is more advanced. If we as a community fragment for the purpose of experimenting, then it is healthy. However, there needs to be one kernel branch that the entire community backs up and says "we stand behind this except when we are motivated by its specific flaws for the particular user in question to not do so". Maintainers need to be able to send their patches to Marcelo, and know that now they can tell any Linux user of any distro to just upgrade to the latest official stable kernel and case closed. Consider my situation with the user of the RedHat 2.4.9 based kernel, because it has the advantage of not being a SuSE related problem.;-) ReiserFS users should not use a 2.4.9 based kernel, they should use 2.4.18 or later. It is wrong that RedHat won't support him if he upgrades to the official kernel. In this case, the official kernel is more advanced for his needs. It removes one of the great advantages of the open source methodology compared to proprietary OSes if he can't download kernels from the net. What should I say to him (other than switch his whole distro to SuSE;-) )? The official kernel is our kernel community's only chance to overcome its fragmentation. We need to support it. All of us, regardless of what camp we are in. It should never be the discouraged officially unsupported branch of the kernel (except when specific flaws relevant to the usage of the user in question are present, and even then it should be with an attitude of "the patch you need isn't yet in the official kernel, try the distro kernel and things will work"). Let's all work as a team. -- Hans