From: "Jeffrey V. Merkey" <jmerkey@wolfmountaingroup.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
Cc: Greg KH <gregkh@suse.de>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>, Martin Bligh <mbligh@mbligh.org>,
"Michael K. Edwards" <medwards.linux@gmail.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:24:04 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4580FC14.1080708@wolfmountaingroup.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612131954530.5718@woody.osdl.org>
Well said, and I agree with ALL of your statements contained in this
post. About damn time this was addressed.
Jeff
Linus Torvalds wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Greg KH wrote:
>
>
>>Numerous kernel developers feel that loading non-GPL drivers into the
>>kernel violates the license of the kernel and their copyright. Because
>>of this, a one year notice for everyone to address any non-GPL
>>compatible modules has been set.
>>
>>
>
>Btw, I really think this is shortsighted.
>
>It will only result in _exactly_ the crap we were just trying to avoid,
>namely stupid "shell game" drivers that don't actually help anything at
>all, and move code into user space instead.
>
>What was the point again?
>
>Was the point to alienate people by showing how we're less about the
>technology than about licenses?
>
>Was the point to show that we think we can extend our reach past derived
>work boundaries by just saying so?
>
>The silly thing is, the people who tend to push most for this are the
>exact SAME people who say that the RIAA etc should not be able to tell
>people what to do with the music copyrights that they own, and that the
>DMCA is bad because it puts technical limits over the rights expressly
>granted by copyright law.
>
>Doesn't anybody else see that as being hypocritical?
>
>So it's ok when we do it, but bad when other people do it? Somehow I'm not
>surprised, but I still think it's sad how you guys are showing a marked
>two-facedness about this.
>
>The fact is, the reason I don't think we should force the issue is very
>simple: copyright law is simply _better_off_ when you honor the admittedly
>gray issue of "derived work". It's gray. It's not black-and-white. But
>being gray is _good_. Putting artificial black-and-white technical
>counter-measures is actually bad. It's bad when the RIAA does it, it's bad
>when anybody else does it.
>
>If a module arguably isn't a derived work, we simply shouldn't try to say
>that its authors have to conform to our worldview.
>
>We should make decisions on TECHNICAL MERIT. And this one is clearly being
>pushed on anything but.
>
>I happen to believe that there shouldn't be technical measures that keep
>me from watching my DVD or listening to my music on whatever device I damn
>well please. Fair use, man. But it should go the other way too: we should
>not try to assert _our_ copyright rules on other peoples code that wasn't
>derived from ours, or assert _our_ technical measures that keep people
>from combining things their way.
>
>If people take our code, they'd better behave according to our rules. But
>we shouldn't have to behave according to the RIAA rules just because we
>_listen_ to their music. Similarly, nobody should be forced to behave
>according to our rules just because they _use_ our system.
>
>There's a big difference between "copy" and "use". It's exatcly the same
>issue whether it's music or code. You can't re-distribute other peoples
>music (becuase it's _their_ copyright), but they shouldn't put limits on
>how you personally _use_ it (because it's _your_ life).
>
>Same goes for code. Copyright is about _distribution_, not about use. We
>shouldn't limit how people use the code.
>
>Oh, well. I realize nobody is likely going to listen to me, and everybody
>has their opinion set in stone.
>
>That said, I'm going to suggest that you people talk to your COMPANY
>LAWYERS on this, and I'm personally not going to merge that particular
>code unless you can convince the people you work for to merge it first.
>
>In other words, you guys know my stance. I'll not fight the combined
>opinion of other kernel developers, but I sure as hell won't be the first
>to merge this, and I sure as hell won't have _my_ tree be the one that
>causes this to happen.
>
>So go get it merged in the Ubuntu, (Open)SuSE and RHEL and Fedora trees
>first. This is not something where we use my tree as a way to get it to
>other trees. This is something where the push had better come from the
>other direction.
>
>Because I think it's stupid. So use somebody else than me to push your
>political agendas, please.
>
> Linus
>-
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>More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-12-14 6:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 239+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-12-13 19:52 [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Greg KH
[not found] ` <1166039585152-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
[not found] ` <11660395913232-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
[not found] ` <11660395951158-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
[not found] ` <11660395998-git-send-email-greg@kroah.com>
2006-12-13 19:52 ` [PATCH 5/14] Driver core: show "initstate" of module Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:52 ` [PATCH 6/14] driver core: delete virtual directory on class_unregister() Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:52 ` [PATCH 7/14] DebugFS : inotify create/mkdir support Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:52 ` [PATCH 8/14] DebugFS : coding style fixes Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53 ` [PATCH 9/14] DebugFS : file/directory creation error handling Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53 ` [PATCH 10/14] DebugFS : more " Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53 ` [PATCH 11/14] DebugFS : file/directory removal fix Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53 ` [PATCH 12/14] Driver core: "platform_driver_probe() can save codespace": save codespace Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53 ` [PATCH 13/14] Driver core: Make platform_device_add_data accept a const pointer Greg KH
2006-12-13 19:53 ` [PATCH 14/14] Driver core: deprecate PM_LEGACY, default it to N Greg KH
2006-12-13 20:12 ` [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 20:31 ` Greg KH
2006-12-13 20:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 21:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 21:15 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-14 9:30 ` Muli Ben-Yehuda
2006-12-14 10:13 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-13 21:36 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 21:46 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 23:40 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 8:49 ` Duncan Sands
2006-12-14 9:56 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 11:51 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 12:45 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 19:16 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 12:39 ` Alan
2006-12-14 13:08 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 17:02 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:17 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 17:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-16 20:13 ` Lee Revell
2006-12-16 20:28 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:34 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-12-14 17:47 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 17:59 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-12-14 12:27 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-13 20:38 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 21:02 ` Greg KH
2006-12-13 21:32 ` Martin Bligh
2006-12-13 21:47 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-13 22:09 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Greg KH
2006-12-14 0:32 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 0:43 ` Jonathan Corbet
2006-12-14 0:55 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 1:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 1:08 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-14 1:30 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2006-12-14 1:58 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 4:15 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 5:39 ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 6:01 ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-14 11:14 ` Alan
2006-12-14 11:31 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 12:42 ` Alan
2006-12-14 12:54 ` Hans-Jürgen Koch
2006-12-14 16:59 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 18:26 ` Alan
2006-12-14 21:16 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 12:55 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 13:10 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-14 17:17 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-17 10:54 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14 8:03 ` James Morris
2006-12-14 15:39 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 20:08 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-15 14:05 ` Paolo Ornati
2006-12-17 10:11 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-17 10:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-19 12:57 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-19 13:56 ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-19 16:46 ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:11 ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-19 17:24 ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-19 17:13 ` Diego Calleja
2006-12-20 5:11 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 19:29 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-20 20:52 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-20 21:10 ` alan
2006-12-21 15:34 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-21 16:43 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-21 19:28 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-24 3:11 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-20 4:27 ` Steven Rostedt
2006-12-14 13:07 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 15:05 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:11 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:31 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-12-14 15:36 ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 17:20 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 14:12 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:10 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-14 16:09 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 16:36 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:34 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 19:29 ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 20:19 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 7:24 ` Jeffrey V. Merkey [this message]
2006-12-14 8:21 ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 11:25 ` Alan
2007-01-22 23:37 ` dfsg isn't fsf (Re: GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19]) Oleg Verych
2006-12-14 14:53 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 16:52 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:33 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:01 ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-12-14 18:12 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 18:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 18:30 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 9:34 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-12-24 11:57 ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-24 13:22 ` Sean
2006-12-24 14:42 ` Mark Hounschell
2006-12-14 10:49 ` Xavier Bestel
2006-12-14 13:04 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-14 13:46 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 17:21 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:49 ` Ben Collins
2006-12-14 15:46 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 17:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 17:08 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 17:38 ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-12-14 17:52 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-18 10:28 ` GPL only modules Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-14 18:15 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Eric Sandeen
2006-12-14 18:39 ` Chris Wedgwood
2006-12-14 18:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 19:42 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-14 19:34 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-15 5:28 ` GPL only modules Alexandre Oliva
2006-12-15 10:13 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Eduard Bloch
2006-12-15 17:44 ` Dave Neuer
2006-12-18 10:55 ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-18 17:05 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-12-14 19:49 ` Hua Zhong
2006-12-17 10:57 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-14 16:17 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 16:33 ` Alan
2006-12-14 16:54 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-14 17:17 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-14 18:18 ` Alan
2006-12-14 19:51 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-21 15:38 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-23 11:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-23 21:36 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24 1:07 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-19 15:12 ` free module selection Markus Elfring
2006-12-14 5:10 ` GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14 8:48 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 14:02 ` Rik van Riel
2006-12-14 15:42 ` Chris Friesen
2006-12-14 15:47 ` Alan
2006-12-14 15:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2006-12-14 22:21 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:26 ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 22:39 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-14 22:45 ` Michael Buesch
2006-12-14 19:32 ` Bill Nottingham
2006-12-14 5:58 ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-12-14 7:54 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-14 8:21 ` David Woodhouse
2006-12-14 10:36 ` Alan
2006-12-14 14:57 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-24 14:27 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-24 19:59 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-12-13 22:20 ` [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19 Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 22:59 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-12-13 23:55 ` Alan
2006-12-14 2:11 ` Al Viro
2006-12-14 17:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 15:13 ` Rik van Riel
2006-12-13 21:48 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-13 21:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 9:05 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-16 11:04 ` Jörn Engel
2006-12-17 10:49 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-13 21:14 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 21:22 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-13 23:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 11:18 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 11:26 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:32 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 18:04 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-14 17:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 20:47 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-14 22:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-14 23:37 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 21:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-13 22:14 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 22:30 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 22:39 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 23:11 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 23:39 ` Michael K. Edwards
2006-12-14 0:00 ` Alan
2006-12-13 23:56 ` Alan
2006-12-14 0:08 ` Greg KH
2006-12-14 9:15 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-14 11:33 ` Alan
2006-12-13 22:40 ` Thomas Gleixner
2006-12-13 22:45 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-12-13 23:15 ` Thomas Gleixner
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-12-15 23:56 GPL only modules [was Re: [GIT PATCH] more Driver core patches for 2.6.19] karderio
2006-12-16 0:24 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 1:27 ` Alan
2006-12-16 1:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 3:59 ` jdow
2006-12-16 17:08 ` David Nicol
2006-12-16 2:32 ` karderio
2006-12-16 2:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 6:43 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 10:28 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 10:50 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 11:09 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-12-16 15:15 ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-17 11:04 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-16 16:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 14:42 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 16:30 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 20:23 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-16 21:04 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 16:54 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2006-12-16 16:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 16:49 ` Willy Tarreau
2006-12-16 17:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-16 18:33 ` Dave Jones
2006-12-17 1:56 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17 3:06 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-12-17 20:23 ` Gerhard Mack
2006-12-21 19:39 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-18 21:04 ` karderio
2006-12-18 22:05 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-18 22:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 22:42 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-16 18:27 Ricardo Galli
2006-12-16 21:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-17 0:22 ` Ricardo Galli
2006-12-17 4:10 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-18 2:43 Brendan Scott
2006-12-22 11:48 Niklas Steinkamp
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