stuff ready to be deleted?

stuff ready to be deleted?

[Robert P. J. Day]

  i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
removing dead content from the tree:

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List

currently, the list contains the items:

    * 1 Legacy power management
    * 2 PCMCIA IOCTL support
    * 3 Traffic shaper
    * 4 Traffic policing
    * 5 Userspace queueing via NETLINK
    * 6 ebt: ulog support
    * 7 MOXA SmartIO support
    * 8 Old I2O ioctls
    * 9 Stallion drivers
    * 10 SDL RISCom/8 support
    * 11 Macintosh M68K support
    * 12 Commodore A2232 serial support
    * 13 CONFIG_FORCED_INLINING
    * 14 kernel_thread()

which of the above are legitimate candidates for removal?  which are
already underway in someone's local tree?  anything else that can
be added?  etc, etc.

rday

-- 
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
========================================================================

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Jesper Juhl]

On 28/05/07, Robert P. J. Day <rpjday@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>   i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
> removing dead content from the tree:
>
> http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
>
> currently, the list contains the items:
>
>     * 1 Legacy power management
>     * 2 PCMCIA IOCTL support
>     * 3 Traffic shaper
>     * 4 Traffic policing
>     * 5 Userspace queueing via NETLINK
>     * 6 ebt: ulog support
>     * 7 MOXA SmartIO support
>     * 8 Old I2O ioctls
>     * 9 Stallion drivers
>     * 10 SDL RISCom/8 support
>     * 11 Macintosh M68K support
>     * 12 Commodore A2232 serial support
>     * 13 CONFIG_FORCED_INLINING
>     * 14 kernel_thread()
>
> which of the above are legitimate candidates for removal?  which are
> already underway in someone's local tree?  anything else that can
> be added?  etc, etc.
>

Take a look at Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt
Some of that stuff is already listed there along with who is in charge
of removing it and when.

-- 
Jesper Juhl <jesper.juhl@gmail.com>
Don't top-post  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please      http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[John Anthony Kazos Jr.]

> >   i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
> > removing dead content from the tree:
> > 
> > http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> > 
> > currently, the list contains the items:
> > 
> >     * 1 Legacy power management
> >     * 2 PCMCIA IOCTL support
> >     * 3 Traffic shaper
> >     * 4 Traffic policing
> >     * 5 Userspace queueing via NETLINK
> >     * 6 ebt: ulog support
> >     * 7 MOXA SmartIO support
> >     * 8 Old I2O ioctls
> >     * 9 Stallion drivers
> >     * 10 SDL RISCom/8 support
> >     * 11 Macintosh M68K support
> >     * 12 Commodore A2232 serial support
> >     * 13 CONFIG_FORCED_INLINING
> >     * 14 kernel_thread()
> > 
> > which of the above are legitimate candidates for removal?  which are
> > already underway in someone's local tree?  anything else that can
> > be added?  etc, etc.
> > 
> 
> Take a look at Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt
> Some of that stuff is already listed there along with who is in charge
> of removing it and when.

Let's not get in that catfight again. That file has been demonstrated to 
be half too premature and half completely obsolete. He's asking for which 
things should he start generating and sending patches and expect them to 
not be ignored or angrily shot down. feature-removal-schedule.txt does not 
provide this information, again as has been demonstrated.

Of course, it would be great if it were accurate and -did- provide that 
information.

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Jesper Juhl]

On 28/05/07, John Anthony Kazos Jr. <jakj@j-a-k-j.com> wrote:
> > >   i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
> > > removing dead content from the tree:
> > >
> > > http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> > >
> > > currently, the list contains the items:
> > >
> > >     * 1 Legacy power management
> > >     * 2 PCMCIA IOCTL support
> > >     * 3 Traffic shaper
> > >     * 4 Traffic policing
> > >     * 5 Userspace queueing via NETLINK
> > >     * 6 ebt: ulog support
> > >     * 7 MOXA SmartIO support
> > >     * 8 Old I2O ioctls
> > >     * 9 Stallion drivers
> > >     * 10 SDL RISCom/8 support
> > >     * 11 Macintosh M68K support
> > >     * 12 Commodore A2232 serial support
> > >     * 13 CONFIG_FORCED_INLINING
> > >     * 14 kernel_thread()
> > >
> > > which of the above are legitimate candidates for removal?  which are
> > > already underway in someone's local tree?  anything else that can
> > > be added?  etc, etc.
> > >
> >
> > Take a look at Documentation/feature-removal-schedule.txt
> > Some of that stuff is already listed there along with who is in charge
> > of removing it and when.
>
> Let's not get in that catfight again. That file has been demonstrated to
> be half too premature and half completely obsolete. He's asking for which
> things should he start generating and sending patches and expect them to
> not be ignored or angrily shot down. feature-removal-schedule.txt does not
> provide this information, again as has been demonstrated.
>
> Of course, it would be great if it were accurate and -did- provide that
> information.
>

Well, at least that file does give him a clue as to who to talk to
about removal of some of the items on the list.  It may not be as
up-to-date as it ought to be, but it's still a source of
information/contact info.

-- 
Jesper Juhl <jesper.juhl@gmail.com>
Don't top-post  http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/top-post.html
Plain text mails only, please      http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Oliver Pinter]

+ open sound system

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Mon, 28 May 2007, Oliver Pinter wrote:

> + open sound system

yeah, that one's so obvious, i don't even list it anymore. :-)  i'm
assuming adrian's going to deal with that when the time comes.

rday
-- 
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
========================================================================

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Daniel Hazelton]

On Monday 28 May 2007 16:52:07 Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Mon, 28 May 2007, Oliver Pinter wrote:
> > + open sound system
>
> yeah, that one's so obvious, i don't even list it anymore. :-)  i'm
> assuming adrian's going to deal with that when the time comes.
>
> rday

And I thought OSS was being kept around until all the hardware it drives 
properly is also supported by ALSA. Last time this one came up there were 
still more than 5 items on the list of OSS supported hardware that wasn't 
covered under ALSA - and the list was likely longer.

DRH

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Bill Davidsen]

Oliver Pinter wrote:
> + open sound system

Why?

OSS supports some hardware ALSA doesn't, it's maintained by an 
independent commercial company (4Front) so maintenance isn't an issue, 
and it's portable to many other operating systems.

Functionality and low TCO, what could be better?

New Linux code, including x86_64 3D drivers, was released in April, so 
there's no lack of new features and activity.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Jeff Garzik]

Bill Davidsen wrote:
> OSS [is] maintained by an 
> independent commercial company (4Front) so maintenance isn't an issue, 

False.  OSS drivers have been largely maintainerless for years.

	Jeff

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Alan Cox]

On Mon, 28 May 2007 18:24:55 -0400
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:

> Oliver Pinter wrote:
> > + open sound system
> 
> Why?
> 
> OSS supports some hardware ALSA doesn't, it's maintained by an 
> independent commercial company (4Front) so maintenance isn't an issue, 
> and it's portable to many other operating systems.

The commercial OSS has been unrelated to the open source once since about
2.0 or thereabouts.

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[David Miller]

From: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:34:02 +0100

> On Mon, 28 May 2007 18:24:55 -0400
> Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote:
> 
> > Oliver Pinter wrote:
> > > + open sound system
> > 
> > Why?
> > 
> > OSS supports some hardware ALSA doesn't, it's maintained by an 
> > independent commercial company (4Front) so maintenance isn't an issue, 
> > and it's portable to many other operating systems.
> 
> The commercial OSS has been unrelated to the open source once since about
> 2.0 or thereabouts.

But for some strange reason Hannu stays subscribed to linux-kernel
all these years :-)

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Jiri Slaby]

Robert P. J. Day napsal(a):
>   i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
> removing dead content from the tree:
> 
> http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> 
> currently, the list contains the items:
[...]
>     * 7 MOXA SmartIO support

already scheduled with the MXSER name.

thanks,
-- 
http://www.fi.muni.cz/~xslaby/            Jiri Slaby
faculty of informatics, masaryk university, brno, cz
e-mail: jirislaby gmail com, gpg pubkey fingerprint:
 B674 9967 0407 CE62 ACC8  22A0 32CC 55C3 39D4 7A7E

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Jan Engelhardt]

On May 28 2007 16:15, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>removing dead content from the tree:
>
>http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
>
>currently, the list contains the items:
>
>    * 4 Traffic policing

CONFIG_NET_SCHED? CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE? Neither seems
marked as deprecated/obsoleted in Kconfig.



	Jan
-- 

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Mon, 28 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

>
> On May 28 2007 16:15, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >removing dead content from the tree:
> >
> >http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> >
> >currently, the list contains the items:
> >
> >    * 4 Traffic policing
>
> CONFIG_NET_SCHED? CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE? Neither seems
> marked as deprecated/obsoleted in Kconfig.

the "traffic policing" entry in that list refers specifically to the
config option "CLS_NET_POLICE" in net/sched/Kconfig:

config NET_CLS_POLICE
        bool "Traffic Policing (obsolete)"
        depends on NET_CLS_ACT!=y
        select NET_ESTIMATOR
        ---help---
          Say Y here if you want to do traffic policing, i.e. strict
          bandwidth limiting. This option is obsoleted by the traffic
          policer implemented as action, it stays here for compatibility
          reasons.

so ... does "obsolete" really mean "obsolete"?

rday
-- 
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
========================================================================

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Mon, 28 May 2007, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

> On Mon, 28 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> >
> > On May 28 2007 16:15, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > >removing dead content from the tree:
> > >
> > >http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> > >
> > >currently, the list contains the items:
> > >
> > >    * 4 Traffic policing
> >
> > CONFIG_NET_SCHED? CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE? Neither seems
> > marked as deprecated/obsoleted in Kconfig.
>
> the "traffic policing" entry in that list refers specifically to the
> config option "CLS_NET_POLICE" in net/sched/Kconfig:
>
> config NET_CLS_POLICE
>         bool "Traffic Policing (obsolete)"
>         depends on NET_CLS_ACT!=y
>         select NET_ESTIMATOR
>         ---help---
>           Say Y here if you want to do traffic policing, i.e. strict
>           bandwidth limiting. This option is obsoleted by the traffic
>           policer implemented as action, it stays here for compatibility
>           reasons.
>
> so ... does "obsolete" really mean "obsolete"?

whoops, the URL i gave above is only for the main page, not for the
specific "stuff to be removed" list here:

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Stuff_to_be_removed

rday
-- 
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
========================================================================

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Jan Engelhardt]

On May 28 2007 18:25, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>On Mon, 28 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

>> >currently, the list contains the items:
>> >
>> >    * 4 Traffic policing
>>
>> CONFIG_NET_SCHED? CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE? Neither seems
>> marked as deprecated/obsoleted in Kconfig.
>
>the "traffic policing" entry in that list refers specifically to the
>config option "CLS_NET_POLICE" in net/sched/Kconfig:
>
>config NET_CLS_POLICE
>        bool "Traffic Policing (obsolete)"
>        depends on NET_CLS_ACT!=y
>
>so ... does "obsolete" really mean "obsolete"?

Have you taken a look at the Makefile? See this oddity:

obj-$(CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE)    += act_police.o
obj-$(CONFIG_NET_CLS_POLICE)    += act_police.o

So is the Kconfig entry all that is obsolete?



	Jan
-- 

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Tue, 29 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

>
> On May 28 2007 18:25, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >On Mon, 28 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>
> >> >currently, the list contains the items:
> >> >
> >> >    * 4 Traffic policing
> >>
> >> CONFIG_NET_SCHED? CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE? Neither seems
> >> marked as deprecated/obsoleted in Kconfig.
> >
> >the "traffic policing" entry in that list refers specifically to the
> >config option "CLS_NET_POLICE" in net/sched/Kconfig:
> >
> >config NET_CLS_POLICE
> >        bool "Traffic Policing (obsolete)"
> >        depends on NET_CLS_ACT!=y
> >
> >so ... does "obsolete" really mean "obsolete"?
>
> Have you taken a look at the Makefile? See this oddity:
>
> obj-$(CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE)    += act_police.o
> obj-$(CONFIG_NET_CLS_POLICE)    += act_police.o
>
> So is the Kconfig entry all that is obsolete?

ah, i hadn't noticed that.  how odd.  now i don't know *what* to
think.

rday
-- 
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
========================================================================

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[David Miller]

From: "Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 04:20:24 -0400 (EDT)

> On Tue, 29 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> 
> >
> > On May 28 2007 18:25, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > >On Mon, 28 May 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> >
> > >> >currently, the list contains the items:
> > >> >
> > >> >    * 4 Traffic policing
> > >>
> > >> CONFIG_NET_SCHED? CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE? Neither seems
> > >> marked as deprecated/obsoleted in Kconfig.
> > >
> > >the "traffic policing" entry in that list refers specifically to the
> > >config option "CLS_NET_POLICE" in net/sched/Kconfig:
> > >
> > >config NET_CLS_POLICE
> > >        bool "Traffic Policing (obsolete)"
> > >        depends on NET_CLS_ACT!=y
> > >
> > >so ... does "obsolete" really mean "obsolete"?
> >
> > Have you taken a look at the Makefile? See this oddity:
> >
> > obj-$(CONFIG_NET_ACT_POLICE)    += act_police.o
> > obj-$(CONFIG_NET_CLS_POLICE)    += act_police.o
> >
> > So is the Kconfig entry all that is obsolete?
> 
> ah, i hadn't noticed that.  how odd.  now i don't know *what* to
> think.

Look at what tests that config option in the code, not just
what the makefiles do.

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

On Mon, 28 May 2007, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
> removing dead content from the tree:
> 
> http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> 
> currently, the list contains the items:

    [...]

>     * 11 Macintosh M68K support

It's not that because Mac/m68k went skipped 2.4.x that it should be removed...

>     * 12 Commodore A2232 serial support

M68k doesn't do SMP, so BROKEN_ON_SMP is IMHO not a good reason...


    [...]

> which of the above are legitimate candidates for removal?  which are
> already underway in someone's local tree?  anything else that can
> be added?  etc, etc.


Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

						Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
							    -- Linus Torvalds

Re: stuff ready to be deleted?

[Finn Thain]

On Tue, 29 May 2007, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:

> On Mon, 28 May 2007, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >   i'm trying to keep track of kernel janitor projects that involve
> > removing dead content from the tree:
> > 
> > http://fsdev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Kernel_Janitor%27s_Todo_List
> > 
> > currently, the list contains the items:
> 
>     [...]
> 
> >     * 11 Macintosh M68K support
> 
> It's not that because Mac/m68k went skipped 2.4.x that it should be removed...

It is true that the MAINTAINERS file is out of date. I suggest we remove 
the maintainers file ;-)

-f