From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1LatMk-0005dn-OS for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:02:06 -0500 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LatMh-0005bD-QV for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:02:03 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LatMh-0005aN-6r for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:02:03 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43098 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LatMh-0005aI-2S for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:02:03 -0500 Received: from xsmtp0.ethz.ch ([82.130.70.14]:32971) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LatMg-000731-Hi for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:02:02 -0500 Received: from xfe1.d.ethz.ch ([82.130.124.41]) by XSMTP0.ethz.ch with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:02:00 +0100 Received: from [192.168.2.105] ([81.221.97.38]) by xfe1.d.ethz.ch over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:02:01 +0100 Message-ID: <49A0170E.9040908@student.ethz.ch> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:00:30 +0100 From: Jan Alsenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090104) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The development of GRUB 2 References: <499DB343.9020301@gmail.com> <499DF97E.1080800@student.ethz.ch> <20090221134607.GJ16068@thorin> <49A00DB7.2080003@student.ethz.ch> <20090221143440.GA16682@thorin> In-Reply-To: <20090221143440.GA16682@thorin> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig56C73BDB130C14D108099DB8" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2009 15:02:01.0242 (UTC) FILETIME=[597EA7A0:01C99435] X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP1+ Subject: Re: A _good_ and valid use for TPM X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GRUB 2 List-Id: The development of GRUB 2 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:02:04 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig56C73BDB130C14D108099DB8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Millan wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 03:20:39PM +0100, Jan Alsenz wrote: >>> "remote attestation" is only useful when you want to coerce others in= to >>> running your (generaly proprietary) software. I hope this is not wha= t you >>> want to do. >> Yes, this is exactly what he tries do to: convince his keyserver, that= the >> requesting server runs, what it's supposed to. >> >> Which is exactly remote attestation, just in this case he controls bot= h sides, >> which I think makes it an interesting use of the technology. >=20 > That would be like trying to rob yourself by threatening yourself with = a gun, > instead of simply drawing money from your wallet. Sorry, I don't get that analogy... > If you just want to ensure noone is tampering your box, simply make you= r box > tamper-proof. You don't need a protocol to allow third parties to chec= k > anything. Ok, but if you have such a protocol, only use it for yourself and do trus= t the manufacturer, you only have to secure one of your boxes instead of them a= ll, which is usually much easier. >>> This is unnecessary. Once GRUB supports crypto, it can simply load >>> itself from an encrypted filesystem on disk. An image can be of >>> arbitrary size. >> Ok, but where does it get the key from? >=20 > The public key (or just a hash) can be embedded in GRUB itself. In the= > instance of GRUB that goes to the flash chip, that is. >=20 >> And how can wherever the key comes from be sure that it's talking to G= RUB? >=20 > Because you put it there, and made sure noone can overwrite it afterwar= ds. Making sure, that noone can override it, can be awfully difficult, especi= ally under a physical attacker. A hardware that is at least a bit designed to withstand such an attack can help a lot. Greets, Jan --------------enig56C73BDB130C14D108099DB8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmgFxMACgkQfZylhtn4XvdZfQCfQdknOeM/uRAxzCUqDFaAv+RX 6M0An2+8lEgJgQS8vxDKS1mMbD744QNY =YdFb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig56C73BDB130C14D108099DB8--