From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1MeDyP-0003Uf-Oa for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:11:01 -0400 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MeDyO-0003QA-AQ for grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:11:00 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MeDyM-0003K4-H3 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:10:59 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48626 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MeDyM-0003Jo-By for grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:10:58 -0400 Received: from mindfields.own-hero.net ([85.214.113.156]:44818) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MeDyL-0006Yg-KM for grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:10:58 -0400 Received: by mindfields.own-hero.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 41D5470104; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:10:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.32] (unknown [93.186.4.35]) by mindfields.own-hero.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB2070083 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:10:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4A8DADF3.8040109@own-hero.net> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:11:31 +0200 From: decoder User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The development of GRUB 2 References: <4A8BDB5B.5000407@labri.fr> <200908201008.01687.michael@gorven.za.net> <200908201033.21202.michael@gorven.za.net> <4A8D7A47.90704@duboucher.eu> <20090820174705.GA18371@thorin> <4A8D9776.9030809@own-hero.net> <20090820200211.GA28050@thorin> In-Reply-To: <20090820200211.GA28050@thorin> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070407060404010507070300" X-Hashcash: 1:22:090820:grub-devel@gnu.org::fplVvv/+GggHwrow:0000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000005IDS X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Subject: Re: about smartcards (Re: TPM support status ?) X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GRUB 2 List-Id: The development of GRUB 2 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:11:00 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070407060404010507070300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Millan wrote: >> This is wrong. Smartcards of course have a an interface to interact with >> them. >> > > Yes, but it's usually just a button or similar. It doesn't behave like a > computer. > What I meant is the software interface. There are crypto protocols to interact with a smartcard and they are similar to the TPM protocols. > The same happens with your oven or your fridge. They run software and have a > user interface, but they don't work like a computer. > > >> And yes, you could use a Smartcard to do DRM. >> > > No, you can't. What you can do is use the smartcard for authentication > in a computer that has been previously rigged against its user. In this > case it is the computer which implements DRM, not the card. > The TPM module itself does not implement DRM either... It provides the necessary crypto routines, a smartcard does so too. > What does this have to do with anything? Being passive doesn't prevent it > from being used in coercion schemes like: > > "Either you use this TPM to certify you're running Crippleware Reader > 2.0 or you can't read this book" > You can use a smartcard as well for that purpose. Crippleware Reader 2.0 can cryptographically make sure that the smartcard is attached, and refuse to work otherwise. And you can make the Smartcard a requirement to read the book. I don't really see the point why people keep bashing the TPM module for purposes like DRM. It's not the TPM module that is bad, but the stuff that people plan to do with it. 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