From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1OqTXU-0003Cu-VC for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:18:25 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54159 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OqTXO-00036B-E2 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:18:23 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OqTXJ-0006Xd-CV for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:18:18 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41]:57327) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OqTXJ-0006XJ-7P for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:18:13 -0400 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so6248147bwz.0 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:18:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=po83t49HRYg5fecNYDYrfyL3B8XDqlHgYG1xx2QySwY=; b=VQAams44Kd4rHFeTs9sWhoREPymHJpvAa+KMOnJh42k91x+puSIpZf0oyNt6P3hiiv UxojaSfML8+aCCwrvCE9U6qUcSgZxCvMBOXX5e3tNHdo/549ncH274HD3PDP3RmIy8dk QR6bpt/WvcJCMjvbtjuGdCpowv5QNN1GYUwpI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; b=lKR2Ai++Ybdx2xHxgerJATl7WkFEt/heTiTIfGim40JkfXYCTOf7M7/OhmF8rVnHnO CJpf8fPjyDtsWmZ0jcoSc0nPd06ad6eXOq92kGap5sGf5ocbKGFElIYpoNclhtluI+xd 3bqNR3a7CgmO5A6sLNurDkQ2Zjih2lZ1sy4tg= Received: by 10.204.76.69 with SMTP id b5mr4602995bkk.79.1283271490563; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from debian.bg45.phnet (171-49.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch [62.203.49.171]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d27sm6382992bku.10.2010.08.31.09.17.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 31 Aug 2010 09:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C7D2B26.5030405@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:17:42 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?VmxhZGltaXIgJ8+GLWNvZGVyL3BoY29kZXInIFNlcmJpbmVua28=?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100805 Icedove/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: grub-devel@gnu.org References: <20100831105840.GW21862@riva.ucam.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigFB77C3A4B797C531ED0C50C9" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Subject: Re: [RFC] Detect other software using embedding area X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GNU GRUB List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:18:23 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigFB77C3A4B797C531ED0C50C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 08/31/2010 05:36 PM, Brendan Trotter wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Colin Watson wro= te: > =20 >> When I blogged about this recently (and rather unexpectedly ended up o= n >> Slashdot), several people followed up to say that GRUB shouldn't be >> using the embedding area because it was never defined to be used for >> anything in particular and has no protocol for arbitrating among >> conflicts like this. >> =20 > Unfortunately, where the PC BIOS is concerned a lot of things are de > facto standards, rather than actual standards; but I've always held a > far simpler view: The MBR and the remaining sectors in the first track > (before the start of the first partition) are reserved for the sole > use of the "boot manager". If GRUB is the boot manager, then no OS > (and no application running under any OS) has the right to touch these > sectors; and the opposite is also true - e.g. if GRUB is not the MBR > (e.g. GRUB is chain-loaded by something else) then GRUB has no right > to touch any of these sectors. > > =20 I completely agree with this point of view. > If applications running on Windows are causing problems (overwriting > something they have no right to touch), then the best solution would > be a public web page (maybe in the GRUB wiki?) that explains the > problem and lists which applications are buggy/broken crap... > > =20 List of such software would be a good thing. However relying on it as the sole solution supposes that the user is concious and searches the real reason. However this expectation however logical it seems is completely irrealistic given our userbase. > Cheers, > > Brendan > > _______________________________________________ > Grub-devel mailing list > Grub-devel@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel > > =20 --=20 Regards Vladimir '=CF=86-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko --------------enigFB77C3A4B797C531ED0C50C9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iF4EAREKAAYFAkx9Ky0ACgkQNak7dOguQglX/AEAomeH+aqvWh5YDoXe1OGdutRS DGHqP+u2Ed+YqL6+puUA/0/hEqCZkR6QmLPvNvrxHOOh9iahvBhDIyi6vX+C8urf =RUNe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigFB77C3A4B797C531ED0C50C9--