Start xen on UEFI system with grub

Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Fabio Fantoni]

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I have Wheezy 64 bit dom0 with kernel 3.2 from repository and xen 4.2 
from source.
I want use UEFI without xen.efi which fails on compiling xen.
Should I use "ucode" or something similar?
Is possible? If is possible what I must do?
Thanks for any reply.


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Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Jan Beulich]

>>> On 11.09.12 at 14:49, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> I have Wheezy 64 bit dom0 with kernel 3.2 from repository and xen 4.2 
> from source.
> I want use UEFI without xen.efi

Why?

> which fails on compiling xen.

How? All you would need is xen.gz for that purpose (but of course
that won't have any EFI specific bits in it).

> Should I use "ucode" or something similar?

That's completely unrelated.

> Is possible? If is possible what I must do?

Without you telling us precisely what doesn't work, we can hardly
answer that.

Jan

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Fabio Fantoni]

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Il 11/09/2012 14:58, Jan Beulich ha scritto:
>>>> On 11.09.12 at 14:49, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
>> I have Wheezy 64 bit dom0 with kernel 3.2 from repository and xen 4.2
>> from source.
>> I want use UEFI without xen.efi
> Why?
>
>> which fails on compiling xen.
> How? All you would need is xen.gz for that purpose (but of course
> that won't have any EFI specific bits in it).
>
>> Should I use "ucode" or something similar?
> That's completely unrelated.
>
>> Is possible? If is possible what I must do?
> Without you telling us precisely what doesn't work, we can hardly
> answer that.
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> -----
> Nessun virus nel messaggio.
> Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com
> Versione: 2012.0.2221 / Database dei virus: 2437/5261 -  Data di rilascio: 10/09/2012
>
>
>
We need do "multilevel" boot on Dell poweredge server working in all 
cases, booting lvm volume and fallback.
With bios is impossible, bugs cause problem in some case.
With efi I not see bugs on boot cases but efibootmgr is not working with 
grub2 and xen.gz and we can't specify lvm for "static" boot order also 
with different disks.
xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
load efi variable.
Thanks for any help and sorry for bad english


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Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Jan Beulich]

>>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
> possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...

Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.

> UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
> load efi variable.

Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.

(Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
bogus under EFI?)

Jan

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Stefano Stabellini]

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> > xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
> > possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
> 
> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
> 
> > UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
> > load efi variable.
> 
> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
> 
> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
> bogus under EFI?)

Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.


What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?
I think that we should add it as a work item for Xen 4.3.

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Jan Beulich]

>>> Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com> 11/01/12 4:50 PM >>>
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
>> >>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
>> > xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
>> > possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
>> 
>> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
>> 
>> > UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
>> > load efi variable.
>> 
>> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
>> 
>> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
>> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
>> bogus under EFI?)
>
>Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
>grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
>For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
>via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.

Then they need to be tought how to do it properly, the more that Linux itself
now is capable of booting without a boot loader (other than the EFI one).

>What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?

I can't be that difficult.

>I think that we should add it as a work item for Xen 4.3.

If you have someone to do that work. I'm willing to review the resulting
changes, but I currently don't see me doing anything here (as being totally
unimportant and - just to repeat that - conceptually wrong).

Jan

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Daniel Kiper]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 07:57:30PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >>> Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com> 11/01/12 4:50 PM >>>
> >On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >> >>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> >> > xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not
> >> > possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
> >>
> >> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
> >>
> >> > UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not
> >> > load efi variable.
> >>
> >> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
> >>
> >> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
> >> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
> >> bogus under EFI?)
> >
> >Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
> >grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
> >For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
> >via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.
>
> Then they need to be tought how to do it properly, the more that Linux itself
> now is capable of booting without a boot loader (other than the EFI one).
>
> >What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?
>
> I can't be that difficult.
>
> >I think that we should add it as a work item for Xen 4.3.
>
> If you have someone to do that work. I'm willing to review the resulting
> changes, but I currently don't see me doing anything here (as being totally
> unimportant and - just to repeat that - conceptually wrong).

Heh... I agree with Jan but there are so many things conceptually wrong
used by millions of people and we could not change that. Let's fix
(broke?) it. I am going to work on EFI stuff in upstream kernel and
I think this task could be assigned to me too.

Daniel

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Fabio Fantoni]

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Il 02/11/2012 12:36, Daniel Kiper ha scritto:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 07:57:30PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
>>>>> Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com> 11/01/12 4:50 PM >>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
>>>>> xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not
>>>>> possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
>>>> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
>>>>
>>>>> UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not
>>>>> load efi variable.
>>>> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
>>>>
>>>> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
>>>> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
>>>> bogus under EFI?)
>>> Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
>>> grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
>>> For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
>>> via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.
>> Then they need to be tought how to do it properly, the more that Linux itself
>> now is capable of booting without a boot loader (other than the EFI one).
>>
>>> What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?
>> I can't be that difficult.
>>
>>> I think that we should add it as a work item for Xen 4.3.
>> If you have someone to do that work. I'm willing to review the resulting
>> changes, but I currently don't see me doing anything here (as being totally
>> unimportant and - just to repeat that - conceptually wrong).
> Heh... I agree with Jan but there are so many things conceptually wrong
> used by millions of people and we could not change that. Let's fix
> (broke?) it. I am going to work on EFI stuff in upstream kernel and
> I think this task could be assigned to me too.
>
> Daniel
>
>
> -----
> Nessun virus nel messaggio.
> Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com
> Versione: 2012.0.2221 / Database dei virus: 2441/5368 -  Data di rilascio: 01/11/2012
>
>
Thanks for getting this task. Hope to hear from you soon regard this, 
let us know as soon as you can post patches.


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Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 07:57:30PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >>> Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com> 11/01/12 4:50 PM >>>
> >On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >> >>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> >> > xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
> >> > possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
> >> 
> >> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
> >> 
> >> > UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
> >> > load efi variable.
> >> 
> >> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
> >> 
> >> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
> >> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
> >> bogus under EFI?)
> >
> >Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
> >grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
> >For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
> >via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.
> 
> Then they need to be tought how to do it properly, the more that Linux itself
> now is capable of booting without a boot loader (other than the EFI one).
> 
> >What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?
> 
> I can't be that difficult.

I believe the only issue was the check to do the  Multiboot-E820 parsing
before the E801 parsing? Perhaps that has already been done?

> 
> >I think that we should add it as a work item for Xen 4.3.
> 
> If you have someone to do that work. I'm willing to review the resulting
> changes, but I currently don't see me doing anything here (as being totally
> unimportant and - just to repeat that - conceptually wrong).
> 
> Jan
> 

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Jan Beulich]

>>> On 02.11.12 at 14:52, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 07:57:30PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
>> >>> Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com> 11/01/12 4:50 PM >>>
>> >On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
>> >> >>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
>> >> > xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
>> >> > possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
>> >> 
>> >> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
>> >> 
>> >> > UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
>> >> > load efi variable.
>> >> 
>> >> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
>> >> 
>> >> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
>> >> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
>> >> bogus under EFI?)
>> >
>> >Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
>> >grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
>> >For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
>> >via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.
>> 
>> Then they need to be tought how to do it properly, the more that Linux 
> itself
>> now is capable of booting without a boot loader (other than the EFI one).
>> 
>> >What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?
>> 
>> I can't be that difficult.
> 
> I believe the only issue was the check to do the  Multiboot-E820 parsing
> before the E801 parsing? Perhaps that has already been done?

That's in all 4.x trees already. But no - the other important aspect
is that without retrieving/passing on the proper EFI table pointers,
on a legacy free system Xen and Dom0 won't be able to locate the
ACPI tables.

Jan

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Fri, Nov 02, 2012 at 02:11:22PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >>> On 02.11.12 at 14:52, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 07:57:30PM +0000, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >> >>> Stefano Stabellini <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com> 11/01/12 4:50 PM >>>
> >> >On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Jan Beulich wrote:
> >> >> >>> On 11.09.12 at 15:17, Fabio Fantoni <fantonifabio@tiscali.it> wrote:
> >> >> > xen.efi not compile when we build xen on Wheezy and probably is not 
> >> >> > possible boot with lvm volume, fallback options ecc...
> >> >> 
> >> >> Just get a suitable tool chain installed then.
> >> >> 
> >> >> > UEFI with grub2 seem the best option but with xen hypervisor seem not 
> >> >> > load efi variable.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Sure, because only xen.efi has the code to deal with such.
> >> >> 
> >> >> (Btw., I assume you aren't aware that any boot manager
> >> >> whatsoever, other than the one coming with EFI, is sort of
> >> >> bogus under EFI?)
> >> >
> >> >Unfortunately it looks like more and more people are of the opinion that
> >> >grub2 is useful even on UEFI firmware.
> >> >For example, it is pretty clear that Ubuntu is still going to boot Xen
> >> >via grub2 no matter how the firmware looks like.
> >> 
> >> Then they need to be tought how to do it properly, the more that Linux 
> > itself
> >> now is capable of booting without a boot loader (other than the EFI one).
> >> 
> >> >What would it take to make Xen work properly with grub2 on a UEFI firmware?
> >> 
> >> I can't be that difficult.
> > 
> > I believe the only issue was the check to do the  Multiboot-E820 parsing
> > before the E801 parsing? Perhaps that has already been done?
> 
> That's in all 4.x trees already. But no - the other important aspect
> is that without retrieving/passing on the proper EFI table pointers,
> on a legacy free system Xen and Dom0 won't be able to locate the
> ACPI tables.

Ah yes (<smacks his head - this is what this thread is about after all>).

I think the work-around could be to use the kexec introduced arguments:

"acpi_rsdp=<physical address of rsdp>"

> 
> Jan
> 

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Ian Campbell]

> > I believe the only issue was the check to do the  Multiboot-E820 parsing
> > before the E801 parsing? Perhaps that has already been done?
> 
> That's in all 4.x trees already. But no - the other important aspect
> is that without retrieving/passing on the proper EFI table pointers,
> on a legacy free system Xen and Dom0 won't be able to locate the
> ACPI tables.

How does this work with native Linux? AIUI the most common way to boot
regular Linux is using grub-efi.

Ian.

Re: Start xen on UEFI system with grub

[Alan Cox]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 14:22:52 +0000
Ian Campbell <ian.campbell@citrix.com> wrote:

> 
> > > I believe the only issue was the check to do the  Multiboot-E820 parsing
> > > before the E801 parsing? Perhaps that has already been done?
> > 
> > That's in all 4.x trees already. But no - the other important aspect
> > is that without retrieving/passing on the proper EFI table pointers,
> > on a legacy free system Xen and Dom0 won't be able to locate the
> > ACPI tables.
> 
> How does this work with native Linux? AIUI the most common way to boot
> regular Linux is using grub-efi.

The preferred way to boot Linux on an EFI platform is to build an EFI
Linux kernel and just let EFI run it. This is supported from 3.3 onwards.
All you then need is one of the innumerable EFI boot chooses that are
springing up (rEFInd, Gummiboot etc) or use the UEFI Shell or efibootmgr

Alan