From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Michael J Gruber Subject: Re: Lack of netiquette, was Re: [PATCH v4 00/13] New remote-hg helper Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:25:34 +0100 Message-ID: <5097860E.5040607@drmicha.warpmail.net> References: <5090EFCA.7070606@drmicha.warpmail.net> <20121031102712.GB30879@sigill.intra.peff.net> <20121031185903.GA1480@elie.Belkin> <50927D29.3020703@lsrfire.ath.cx> <5093949D.4070509@op5.se> <5093A873.9090701@drmicha.warpmail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: Andreas Ericsson , =?UTF-8?B?UmVuw6kgU2NoYXJmZQ==?= , Junio C Hamano , Johannes Schindelin , Jonathan Nieder , Jeff King , git@vger.kernel.org, Sverre Rabbelier , Ilari Liusvaara , Daniel Barkalow To: Felipe Contreras X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Mon Nov 05 10:25:52 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TVIwK-0002Zp-7X for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:25:52 +0100 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752500Ab2KEJZj convert rfc822-to-quoted-printable (ORCPT ); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 04:25:39 -0500 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:60541 "EHLO out5-smtp.messagingengine.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751761Ab2KEJZi (ORCPT ); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 04:25:38 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.44]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 228C5204E7; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 04:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.160]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 05 Nov 2012 04:25:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=cQMPo7Y0j1Z3dC//pv/ks5 zWEDg=; b=cxiUvSYoiZ1hL95AaRgx7n52qQbjQV4UT4JZGffb6nGvasxHZgpFS2 /G4La2xYHvystcxVDdOqnR0KXjHfhmRVS2+rVPT8DcgPLi+Faw1M7gtFUiLhk+2G 7QWeyMv+M26ZRaLamiRmT6hOBcQphyGcycWohpz6sNN4vLj7kSHBQ= X-Sasl-enc: TqqR/SSPg9TlK17dBo3E4PDbF1KguHN0npXEjfN25kWI 1352107536 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [130.75.46.56]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8DD488E04D0; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 04:25:35 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121016 Thunderbird/16.0.1 In-Reply-To: Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: =46elipe Contreras venit, vidit, dixit 02.11.2012 17:09: > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Michael J Gruber > wrote: >> Andreas Ericsson venit, vidit, dixit 02.11.2012 10:38: >>> On 11/01/2012 02:46 PM, Ren=C3=A9 Scharfe wrote: >>>> >>>> Also, and I'm sure you didn't know that, "Jedem das Seine" (to eac= h >>>> his own) was the slogan of the Buchenwald concentration camp. For >>>> that reason some (including me) hear the unspoken cynical >>>> half-sentence "and some people just have to be sent to the gas >>>> chamber" when someone uses this proverb. >>>> >>> >>> It goes further back than that. >>> >>> "Suum cuique pulchrum est" ("To each his own is a beautiful thing")= is >>> a latin phrase said to be used frequently in the roman senate when >>> senators politely agreed to disagree and let a vote decide the outc= ome >>> rather than debating further. >>> >>> Please don't let the twisted views of whatever nazi idiot thought i= t >>> meant "you may have the wrong faith and therefore deserve to die, s= o you >>> shall" pollute it. The original meaning is both poetic and democrat= ic, >>> and I firmly believe most people have the original meaning to the f= ore >>> of their mind when using it. After all, very few people knowingly q= uote >>> nazi concentration camp slogans. >>> >> >> In fact, many German terms and words are "forbidden area" since Nazi >> times, but I don't think this one carries the same connotation. >> >> But that is a side track. >> >> Collaboration (and code review is a form of collaboration) requires >> communication. The linked code of conduct pages describe quite well = how >> to ensure a productive environment in which "everyone" feels comfort= able >> communicating and collaborating. >=20 > Yes, but that's assuming we want "everyone" to feel comfortable > communicating and collaborating. I put "everyone" in quotes because you can never reach 100%, so "everyone" means almost everyone. Undeniably, the answers in this and the other threads show that on the git mailing list, "everyone" wants "everyone" to feel comfortable communicating and collaborating. > I cite again the example of the Linux > kernel, where certainly not "everyone" feels that way. But somehow It's a different list with different standards and tone, so it doesn't really matter for our list. That being said: > they manage to be perhaps the most successful software project in > history. And I would argue even more: it's _because_ not everyone > feels comfortable, it's because ideas and code are criticized freely, > and because only the ones that do have merit stand. If you are able t= o > take criticism, and you are not emotionally and personally attacked t= o > your code and your ideas, you would thrive in this environment. If yo= u > don't want your precious little baby code to fight against the big > guys, then you shouldn't send it out to the world. =46or one thing, contributors on the kernel list are open to technical arguments, and that includes the arguments of others; just like we are here. On the other hand, you seem to rebuke "any" (most) technical argument in harsh words as if it were a personal attack; at least that'= s how your answers come across to me (and apparently others). That really makes it difficult for most of us here to argue with you technically, which is a pity. That lack of openness for the arguments of others woul= d make your life difficult on the kernel list also. A completely different issue is that of language. You talk German on a German list and English on an international list. You talk "kernel English" on the kernel list, which is full of words and phrases you would never use in a normal social setting where you talk to people in person; it would be completely unacceptable. Here on the Git list, we prefer to talk like in a normal, albeit colloquial social setting. If you're open for advice: just imagine talking to the people here in person, to colleagues across your desk, and you have a good guideline. And no, using the same or similar language does not make us the same at all. Using the same language is the natural prerequisite for successful communication. =46elipe, please try to see the efforts many of us are making here in order to keep you as a contributor, and reward it by accepting the advice to revise your language: colleague to colleague. Michael