[dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[Mario Blättermann]

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Hi all,

the user visible strings of cryptsetup are translatable for some years, the
translations are maintained at translationproject.org. It would be nice if we
could also maintain the man page translations there.

Have a look at the attachment. I've written two small scripts. Put them into the
top level directory of cryptsetup and put the file de.po in ./man.

Running create-man-pot.sh creates a pot template from the three man pages in
./man and saves the result there. This is the file which you have to send to the
TP coordinators once the appropriate translatable domain has been established.

The script translate-man.sh generates the translated man pages and puts them
into ./man/LL/man8 where LL is the language code. To test the behavior, I've
added my current (and still incomplete) German translation. The variable
$threshold is currently at 50% which means we need a minimum of 50% of the
string count translated. Usually we have 80% here, the current value is only for
testing purposes.

Note that po4a is needed. As far as I can see, this is the most simple way to
generate translations. An alternative would be using
doclifter/itstool/docbook2man, but po4a is less difficult to handle.

Moreover, due to the fact that man pages are arch independent, the translated
versions should also be shipped with a released tarball. This means, the scripts
should be called within "make dist". That way distribution packagers don't have
to bother with po4a. It is not needed to keep any po files in Git. Just fetch
them from translationproject.org once the tarball gets created using the rsync
command in create-man-pot.sh.

Unfortunately, my scripting skills are actually poor. Maybe the scripts could
tweaked a bit.

Best Regards,
Mario

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Re: [dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[Milan Broz]

On 03/14/2014 03:57 PM, Mario Blättermann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> the user visible strings of cryptsetup are translatable for some years, the
> translations are maintained at translationproject.org. It would be nice if we
> could also maintain the man page translations there.

Hi,

ok, man page translations would be nice. But even translations of submitted strings
pot files takes several weeks sometimes, so I am not sure if it is better
with man pages...

Anyway, I will integrate it in build and will submit man page templates next
time.

I want both po files in git and of course also in release tarball but I have already
script to download it from translationproject.org.

Thanks,
Milan

Re: [dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[Mario Blättermann]

Hi Milan,

Am 14.03.2014 18:07, schrieb Milan Broz:
> On 03/14/2014 03:57 PM, Mario Blättermann wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> the user visible strings of cryptsetup are translatable for some years, the
>> translations are maintained at translationproject.org. It would be nice if we
>> could also maintain the man page translations there.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ok, man page translations would be nice. But even translations of submitted strings
> pot files takes several weeks sometimes, so I am not sure if it is better
> with man pages...
It is always better than without any translations ;) Of course we need some time
to update translations, that's why you should create a pre-release tarball
PACKAGE VERSION scheduled release, that's an acceptable time frame for us. Maybe
to roll bugfix releases occasionally is also helpful, when new translations have
been arrived in the meantime.
> 
> Anyway, I will integrate it in build and will submit man page templates next
> time.
> 
OK, once the TP module has been created I get informed by the TP robot anyway.

> I want both po files in git and of course also in release tarball but I have already
> script to download it from translationproject.org.
> 
That's your preference, of course. But make sure the translated man page
versions to ship with the released tarball, this makes it somewhat easier for
distribution packagers. And please screw up the threshold for acceptable
translations to 80% again (by dropping the -k switch from po4a-translate), it
would be annoying for the readers to get a fifty-fifty translated manual.

Best Regards,
Mario

Re: [dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[Sven Eschenberg]

On Fri, March 14, 2014 21:02, Mario Blättermann wrote:
> Hi Milan,
>
> Am 14.03.2014 18:07, schrieb Milan Broz:
>> On 03/14/2014 03:57 PM, Mario Blättermann wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> the user visible strings of cryptsetup are translatable for some years,
>>> the
>>> translations are maintained at translationproject.org. It would be nice
>>> if we
>>> could also maintain the man page translations there.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> ok, man page translations would be nice. But even translations of
>> submitted strings
>> pot files takes several weeks sometimes, so I am not sure if it is
>> better
>> with man pages...
> It is always better than without any translations ;) Of course we need
> some time
> to update translations, that's why you should create a pre-release tarball
> PACKAGE VERSION scheduled release, that's an acceptable time frame for us.
> Maybe
> to roll bugfix releases occasionally is also helpful, when new
> translations have
> been arrived in the meantime.

I have to object here. Poor Translations can be quite dangerous, because
people might come to wrong conclusions. But it general man page
translations would be nice for some users, esp. if the translation
superseeds their own translation capabilities, I think.

>
> Best Regards,
> Mario
> _______________________________________________
> dm-crypt mailing list
> dm-crypt@saout.de
> http://www.saout.de/mailman/listinfo/dm-crypt
>

Regards

-Sven

Re: [dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[Mario Blättermann]

Am 15.03.2014 00:24, schrieb Sven Eschenberg:
> On Fri, March 14, 2014 21:02, Mario Blättermann wrote:
>> Hi Milan,
>>
>> Am 14.03.2014 18:07, schrieb Milan Broz:
>>> On 03/14/2014 03:57 PM, Mario Blättermann wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> the user visible strings of cryptsetup are translatable for some years,
>>>> the
>>>> translations are maintained at translationproject.org. It would be nice
>>>> if we
>>>> could also maintain the man page translations there.
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> ok, man page translations would be nice. But even translations of
>>> submitted strings
>>> pot files takes several weeks sometimes, so I am not sure if it is
>>> better
>>> with man pages...
>> It is always better than without any translations ;) Of course we need
>> some time
>> to update translations, that's why you should create a pre-release tarball
>> PACKAGE VERSION scheduled release, that's an acceptable time frame for us.
Don't know where this PACKAGE VERSION came from, actually I meant "create a
pre-release tarball two weeks prior to a scheduled release". Just FYI.

>> Maybe
>> to roll bugfix releases occasionally is also helpful, when new
>> translations have
>> been arrived in the meantime.
> 
> I have to object here. Poor Translations can be quite dangerous, because
> people might come to wrong conclusions. But it general man page
> translations would be nice for some users, esp. if the translation
> superseeds their own translation capabilities, I think.
> 
Indeed, that's our main target audience. I know about problems with poor
translations, but we shouldn't think about dropping (or not enabling) i18n
support because we are afraid to get poor translations. That's not the goal.
However, the choice of a long-time established project with experienced
translators (such as the TP) is better than to accept casual translations from
anyone and anywhere. This doesn't make sure to get translations without
mistakes, but it is somewhat better, I think.

Best Regards,
Mario

Re: [dm-crypt] Translations for cryptsetup man pages

[Arno Wagner]

On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 15:12:27 CET, Mario Blättermann wrote:
[...]
> Indeed, that's our main target audience. I know about problems with poor
> translations, but we shouldn't think about dropping (or not enabling) i18n
> support because we are afraid to get poor translations. That's not the goal.
> However, the choice of a long-time established project with experienced
> translators (such as the TP) is better than to accept casual translations from
> anyone and anywhere. This doesn't make sure to get translations without
> mistakes, but it is somewhat better, I think.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Mario

What about review? For example, if you translate the FAQ to German,
I would suggest that I proof-read it, as I am a native speaker. 

Arno
-- 
Arno Wagner,     Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform.,    Email: arno@wagner.name
GnuPG: ID: CB5D9718  FP: 12D6 C03B 1B30 33BB 13CF  B774 E35C 5FA1 CB5D 9718
----
A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. -  Plato