From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
Brian Gerst <brgerst@gmail.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
stable@vger.kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 14:24:37 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <53485D95.9030301@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <53485BB8.1000106@mit.edu>
On 04/11/2014 02:16 PM, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On 04/11/2014 11:29 AM, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
>> On 04/11/2014 11:27 AM, Brian Gerst wrote:
>>> Is this bug really still present in modern CPUs? This change breaks
>>> running 16-bit apps in Wine. I have a few really old games I like to
>>> play on occasion, and I don't have a copy of Win 3.11 to put in a VM.
>>
>> It is not a bug, per se, but an architectural definition issue, and it
>> is present in all x86 processors from all vendors.
>>
>> Yes, it does break running 16-bit apps in Wine, although Wine could be
>> modified to put 16-bit apps in a container. However, this is at best a
>> marginal use case.
>
> I wonder if there's an easy-ish good-enough fix:
>
> Allocate some percpu space in the fixmap. (OK, this is ugly, but
> kvmclock already does it, so it's possible.) To return to 16-bit
> userspace, make sure interrupts are off, copy the whole iret descriptor
> to the current cpu's fixmap space, change rsp to point to that space,
> and then do the iret.
>
> This won't restore the correct value to the high bits of [er]sp, but it
> will at least stop leaking anything interesting to userspace.
>
This would fix the infoleak, at the cost of allocating a chunk of memory
for each CPU. It doesn't fix the functionality problem.
If we're going to do a workaround I would prefer to do something that
fixes both, but it is highly nontrivial.
This is a writeup I did to a select audience before this was public:
> Hello,
>
> It appears we have an information leak on x86-64 by which at least bits
> [31:16] of the kernel stack address leaks to user space (some silicon
> including the 64-bit Pentium 4 leaks [63:16]). This is due to the the
> behavior of IRET when returning to a 16-bit segment: IRET restores only
> the bottom 16 bits of the stack pointer.
>
> This is known on 32 bits and we, in fact, have a workaround for it
> ("espfix") there. We do not, however, have the equivalent on 64 bits,
> nor does it seem that it is very easy to construct a workaround (see below.)
>
> This is both a functionality problem (16-bit code gets the upper bits of
> %esp corrupted when the kernel is invoked) and an information leak. The
> 32-bit workaround was labeled as a fix for the functionality problem,
> but it of course also addresses the leak.
>
> On 64 bits, the easiest mitigation seems to be to make modify_ldt()
> refuse to install a 16-bit segment when running on a 64-bit kernel.
> 16-bit support is already somewhat crippled on 64 bits since there is no
> V86 support; obviously, for "full service" support we can always set up
> a virtual machine -- most (but sadly, not all) 64-bit parts are also
> virtualization capable.
>
> I would have suggested rejecting modify_ldt() entirely, to reduce attack
> surface, except that some early versions of 32-bit NPTL glibc use
> modify_ldt() to exclusion of all other methods of establishing the
> thread pointer, so in order to stay compatible with those we would need
> to allow 32-bit segments via modify_ldt() still.
>
> However, there is no doubt this will break some legitimate users of
> 16-bit segments, e.g. Wine for 16-bit Windows apps (which don't work on
> 64-bit Windows either, for what it is worth.)
>
> We may very well have other infoleaks that dwarf this, but the kernel
> stack address is a relatively high value item for exploits.
>
> Some workarounds I have considered:
>
> a. Using paging in a similar way to the 32-bit segment base workaround
>
> This one requires a very large swath of virtual user space (depending on
> allocation policy, as much as 4 GiB per CPU.) The "per CPU" requirement
> comes in as locking is not feasible -- as we return to user space there
> is nowhere to release the lock.
>
> b. Return to user space via compatibility mode
>
> As the kernel lives above the 4 GiB virtual mark, a transition through
> compatibility mode is not practical. This would require the kernel to
> reserve virtual address space below the 4 GiB mark, which may interfere
> with the application, especially an application launched as a 64-bit
> application.
>
> c. Trampoline in kernel space
>
> A trampoline in kernel space is not feasible since all ring transition
> instructions capable of returning to 16-bit mode require the use of the
> stack.
>
> d. Trampoline in user space
>
> A return to the vdso with values set up in registers r8-r15 would enable
> a trampoline in user space. Unfortunately there is no way
> to do a far JMP entirely with register state so this would require
> touching user space memory, possibly in an unsafe manner.
>
> The most likely variant is to use the address of the 16-bit user stack
> and simply hope that this is a safe thing to do.
>
> This appears to be the most feasible workaround if a workaround is
> deemed necessary.
>
> e. Transparently run 16-bit code segments inside a lightweight VMM
>
> The complexity of this solution versus the realized value is staggering.
> It also doesn't work on non-virtualization-capable hardware (including
> running on top of a VMM which doesn't support nested virtualization.)
>
> -hpa
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-04-11 21:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 137+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-04-11 17:36 [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels tip-bot for H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 18:12 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 18:20 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 18:27 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-11 18:29 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 18:35 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-11 21:16 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 21:24 ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2014-04-11 21:53 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 21:59 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 22:15 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-11 22:18 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13 4:20 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 23:26 ` Alexander van Heukelum
2014-04-12 23:31 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 23:49 ` Alexander van Heukelum
2014-04-13 0:03 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13 1:25 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-13 1:29 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-04-13 3:00 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-11 21:34 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-11 18:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-11 18:45 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-11 18:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-12 4:44 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-12 17:18 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 19:35 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-12 19:44 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-12 20:11 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-12 20:34 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-12 20:59 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-12 21:13 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-12 21:40 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-14 7:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-14 9:44 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-14 9:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-12 21:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-12 22:25 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13 2:56 ` Andi Kleen
2014-04-13 3:02 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13 3:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-12 20:29 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-14 7:48 ` Alexandre Julliard
2014-05-07 9:18 ` Sven Joachim
2014-05-07 10:18 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-05-07 16:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-07 17:09 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-07 17:50 ` Alexandre Julliard
2014-05-08 6:43 ` Sven Joachim
2014-05-08 13:50 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-08 20:13 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-08 20:40 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-12 13:16 ` Josh Boyer
2014-05-12 16:52 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-14 23:43 ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Make support for 16-bit segments a runtime option tip-bot for Linus Torvalds
2014-04-11 18:46 ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-14 7:27 ` Ingo Molnar
2014-04-14 15:45 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-13 2:54 ` Andi Kleen
2014-04-21 22:47 ` [PATCH] x86-64: espfix for 64-bit mode *PROTOTYPE* H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-21 23:19 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-21 23:29 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 0:37 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 0:53 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 1:06 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 1:14 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 1:28 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 1:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 1:53 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 11:23 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-22 14:46 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-22 16:03 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 16:10 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 16:33 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 16:43 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-22 17:00 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-22 17:11 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:15 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 9:54 ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-04-23 15:53 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 17:08 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-23 17:16 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 17:25 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-23 17:28 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 17:45 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-04-22 17:29 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:46 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:59 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 18:03 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 18:06 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 18:17 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 18:51 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 19:55 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 20:17 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 23:08 ` Brian Gerst
2014-04-22 23:39 ` Andi Kleen
2014-04-22 23:40 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:11 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:26 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-22 17:29 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 19:27 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-23 6:24 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 8:57 ` Alexandre Julliard
2014-04-22 17:09 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 17:20 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-22 17:24 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-22 11:25 ` Borislav Petkov
2014-04-23 1:17 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 1:23 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-23 1:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-23 14:24 ` Boris Ostrovsky
2014-04-23 16:56 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-28 13:04 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2014-04-25 21:02 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2014-04-25 21:16 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-24 4:13 ` comex
2014-04-24 4:53 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-24 22:24 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-24 22:31 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-24 22:37 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-24 22:43 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-28 23:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-28 23:08 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 0:02 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-29 0:15 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 0:20 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2014-04-29 2:38 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 2:44 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 3:45 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 3:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 4:36 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-29 7:14 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-04-25 12:02 ` Pavel Machek
2014-04-25 21:20 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] <CAM1qvvhTaChkceBawnZZKZYT6tURcVZQe3upq3dpn_S9wp0C-Q@mail.gmail.com>
2014-04-13 13:03 ` [tip:x86/urgent] x86-64, modify_ldt: Ban 16-bit segments on 64-bit kernels Jan Janecek
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=53485D95.9030301@zytor.com \
--to=hpa@zytor.com \
--cc=brgerst@gmail.com \
--cc=hpa@linux.intel.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=luto@amacapital.net \
--cc=mingo@kernel.org \
--cc=stable@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
--cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.