From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <541B311B.1060501@siemens.com> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:23:07 +0200 From: Jan Kiszka MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5357C92F.2060206@xenomai.org> <535828F6.6050308@xenomai.org> <53583DF7.3080700@xenomai.org> <540F6B15.2070201@xenomai.org> <54112EFA.4080901@web.de> <541130D0.50409@web.de> <541AC62F.2050003@xenomai.org> <541AC933.9090600@siemens.com> <541ACD66.50902@xenomai.org> <541ACE05.1050305@siemens.com> <541AD8A2.30500@xenomai.org> <541ADD8A.7020804@siemens.com> <541AE1CD.7090008@xenomai.org> <541B04E6.5010808@siemens.com> <541B0815.5010906@xenomai.org> <541B26FE.6000507@xenomai.org> In-Reply-To: <541B26FE.6000507@xenomai.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Xenomai] Reading /proc/xenomai/stat causes high latencies List-Id: Discussions about the Xenomai project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Gilles Chanteperdrix , Jeroen Van den Keybus Cc: "xenomai@xenomai.org" On 2014-09-18 20:39, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: > On 09/18/2014 06:28 PM, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >> On 09/18/2014 06:14 PM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>> On 2014-09-18 15:44, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >>>> On 09/18/2014 03:26 PM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>>> On 2014-09-18 15:05, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >>>>>> On 09/18/2014 02:20 PM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>>>>> On 2014-09-18 14:17, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >>>>>>>> On 09/18/2014 01:59 PM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2014-09-18 13:46, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 09/11/2014 07:19 AM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-09-11 07:11, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-09-09 23:03, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/25/2014 12:44 PM, Jeroen Van den Keybus wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For testing, I've removed the locks from the vfile system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then the high latencies reliably disappear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To test, I made two xeno_nucleus modules: one with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> xnlock_get/put_ in place and one with dummies. Subsequently, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use a program that simply opens and reads the stat file >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1,000 times. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With locks: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTT| 00:00:01 (periodic user-mode task, 100 us period, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> priority 99) RTH|----lat min|----lat avg|----lat >>>>>>>>>>>>>> max|-overrun|---msw|---lat best|--lat worst RTD| -2.575| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -2.309| 9.286| 0| 0| -2.575| 9.286 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTD| -2.364| -2.276| 1.600| 0| 0| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -2.575| 9.286 RTD| -2.482| -2.274| 2.165| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0| 0| -2.575| 9.286 RTD| -2.368| 135.261| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1478.154| 13008| 0| -2.575| 1478.154 RTD| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -2.368| -2.272| 2.602| 13008| 0| -2.575| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1478.154 RTD| -2.499| -2.272| 6.933| 13008| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0| -2.575| 1478.154 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without locks: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTT| 00:00:01 (periodic user-mode task, 100 us period, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> priority 99) RTH|----lat min|----lat avg|----lat >>>>>>>>>>>>>> max|-overrun|---msw|---lat best|--lat worst RTD| -2.503| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -2.270| 3.310| 0| 0| -2.503| 3.310 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTD| -2.418| -2.284| -1.646| 0| 0| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -2.503| 3.310 RTD| -2.496| -2.275| 4.630| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0| 0| -2.503| 4.630 RTD| -2.374| -2.285| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -1.458| 0| 0| -2.503| 4.630 RTD| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -2.452| -2.273| 3.559| 0| 0| -2.503| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.630 RTD| -2.370| -2.285| -1.518| 0| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0| -2.503| 4.630 RTD| -2.458| -2.274| >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.203| 0| 0| -2.503| 4.630 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll now have a closer look into the vfile system but if the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> locks are malfunctioning, I'm clueless. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Answering with a "little" delay, could you try the following >>>>>>>>>>>>> patch? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> diff --git a/include/asm-generic/bits/pod.h >>>>>>>>>>>>> b/include/asm-generic/bits/pod.h index a6be0dc..cfb0c71 100644 >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- a/include/asm-generic/bits/pod.h +++ >>>>>>>>>>>>> b/include/asm-generic/bits/pod.h @@ -248,6 +248,7 @@ void >>>>>>>>>>>>> __xnlock_spin(xnlock_t *lock /*, */ XNLOCK_DBG_CONTEXT_ARGS) >>>>>>>>>>>>> cpu_relax(); xnlock_dbg_spinning(lock, cpu, &spin_limit /*, */ >>>>>>>>>>>>> XNLOCK_DBG_PASS_CONTEXT); + xnarch_memory_barrier(); } >>>>>>>>>>>>> while(atomic_read(&lock->owner) != ~0); } >>>>>>>>>>>>> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(__xnlock_spin); diff --git >>>>>>>>>>>>> a/include/asm-generic/system.h b/include/asm-generic/system.h >>>>>>>>>>>>> index 25bd83f..7a8c4d0 100644 --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> a/include/asm-generic/system.h +++ >>>>>>>>>>>>> b/include/asm-generic/system.h @@ -378,6 +378,8 @@ static >>>>>>>>>>>>> inline void xnlock_put(xnlock_t *lock) >>>>>>>>>>>>> xnarch_memory_barrier(); >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> atomic_set(&lock->owner, ~0); + + xnarch_memory_barrier(); >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's pretty heavy-weighted now (it was already due to the first >>>>>>>>>>>> memory barrier). Maybe it's better to look at some ticket lock >>>>>>>>>>>> mechanism like Linux uses for fairness. At least on x86 (and >>>>>>>>>>>> other strictly ordered archs), those require no memory barriers >>>>>>>>>>>> on release. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, memory barriers aren't needed on strictly ordered archs >>>>>>>>>>> already today, independent of the spinlock granting algorithm. So >>>>>>>>>>> there are two optimization possibilities: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - ticket-based granting - arch-specific (thus optimized) core >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ok, no answer, so I will try to be more clear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I do not pretend to understand how memory barriers work at a low >>>>>>>>>> level, this is a shame, I know, and am sorry for that. My "high level" >>>>>>>>>> view, is that memory barriers on SMP systems act as synchronization >>>>>>>>>> points, meaning that when a CPU issues a barrier, it will "see" the >>>>>>>>>> state of the other CPUs at the time of their last barrier. This means >>>>>>>>>> that for a CPU to see a store that occured on another CPU, there must >>>>>>>>>> have been two barriers: a barrier after the store on one cpu, and a >>>>>>>>>> barrier after that before the read on the other cpu. This view of >>>>>>>>>> things seems to be corroborated by the fact that the patch works, and >>>>>>>>>> by the following sentence in Documentation/memory-barriers.txt: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (*) There is no guarantee that a CPU will see the correct order of >>>>>>>>>> effects from a second CPU's accesses, even _if_ the second CPU uses a >>>>>>>>>> memory barrier, unless the first CPU _also_ uses a matching memory >>>>>>>>>> barrier (see the subsection on "SMP Barrier Pairing"). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [quick answer] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ...or the architecture refrains from reordering write requests, like x86 >>>>>>>>> does. What may happen, though, is that the compiler reorders the writes. >>>>>>>>> Therefore you need at least a (must cheaper) compiler barrier on those >>>>>>>>> archs. See also linux/Documentation/memory-barriers.txt on this and more. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> quick answer: I do not believe an SMP architecture can enforce stores >>>>>>>> ordering accross multiple cpus, with cpus local caches and such. And the >>>>>>>> fact that the patch I sent fixed the issue on x86 tend to prove me right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not wrong, it's just (costly, on larger machines) overkill as the >>>>>>> other cores either see the lock release and all prior changes committed >>>>>>> or the lock taken (and the prior changes do not matter then). They will >>>>>>> never see later changes committed before the lock being visible as free. >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree. But this is true on all architectures, not just on strictly >>>>>> ordered ones, this is just due to how barriers work on SMP systems, as I >>>>>> explained. >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's architecturally guaranteed, and that's why you have no memory >>>>>>> barriers in x86 spinlock release operations. >>>>>> >>>>>> I disagree, as explained in the paragraph just below the one you quote, >>>>>> I believe this is an optimization, which is almost valid on any >>>>>> architecture. Almost valid, because if the cpu which has done the unlock >>>>>> does another lock without any time for a barrier in between to >>>>>> synchronize cpus, we have a problem, because the other cpus will never >>>>>> see the spinlock as free. With ticket spinlocks, you just add a store on >>>>>> the cpu which spins, and you have to add a barrier after that, if you >>>>>> want the barrier before the read on the cpu which will acquire the lock >>>>>> to see that the spinlock is contended. So I do not see how this requires >>>>>> less barriers. >>>>> >>>>> Ticket locks prevent unfair starvation without the closing barrier as >>>>> they grant the next ticket to the next waiter, not the current holder. >>>>> See the Linux implementation. >>>> >>>> Whether to put the closing barrier after the last store is orthogonal, >>>> to whether implementing ticket locks or not. This is all a question of >>>> tradeoffs. >>>> >>>> Without the barrier after the last store, you increase the spinning time >>>> due to time taken for the store to be visible on other cpus, but you >>>> optimize the overhead of unlocking. >>>> >>>> With ticket spinlocks you avoid the starvation situation, at the expense >>>> of increasing the overhread of spinlock operations. >>>> >>>> I do not know which is worse. I suspect all this does not make much of a >>>> difference, and what dominates is the duration of spinlock sections anyway. >>> >>> I think the way classic Linux spinlock did this on x86 provide the answer. >> >> The situation is completely different: linux spinlocks are well split, >> xenomai basically has one only spinlock, so chances are that it will be >> more contended, so the heavy unlock path (the one which implements the >> ticket stuff) will be triggered more often. Also, xenomai spinlock (we >> can loose the s anyway) being more contended, the "pending store >> barrier" optimization has in fact chances of being detrimental. And >> finally, due to the way spinlocks are split, Linux has scalability >> issues that Xenomai can not even begin to imagine tackling. > > Finally, in the eternal worst case vs average case fight, the worst case > worth optimizing is the contended case in our case, and I believe adding > the barrier after atomic_set in xnlock_put is what optimizes this worst > case best, because, again, it reduces the time between the unlock and > its visibility on the spinning cpu. That is at least something Linux > does not have to care about, because the worst case is not what it is > optimized for. Maybe. Unsure right now, if we see prolonged spinning time due to this on x86. I suspect not as spinning is not only increasing latencies but also burning CPU power uselessly, and that would be noticed and disliked under Linux. Jan -- Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT RTC ITP SES-DE Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux