From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1fXfmv-0005Ua-12 for mharc-qemu-trivial@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:41:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51759) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fXfmt-0005TL-0D for qemu-trivial@nongnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:41:07 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fXfms-0007we-1K for qemu-trivial@nongnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:41:07 -0400 Received: from mx3-rdu2.redhat.com ([66.187.233.73]:50964 helo=mx1.redhat.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fXfmn-0007qO-LW; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:41:01 -0400 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCB7B81ACF4A; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:41:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.40.204.33] (ovpn-204-33.brq.redhat.com [10.40.204.33]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57D272166B5D; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:40:58 +0000 (UTC) To: Paolo Bonzini , Eduardo Habkost Cc: Markus Armbruster , zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com, Ben Warren , qemu-trivial@nongnu.org, Cornelia Huck , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Stefan Hajnoczi References: <20180613151942.GC19901@redhat.com> <87k1r24quk.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <20180619171539.0adc90d6.cohuck@redhat.com> <20180622181108.GY7451@localhost.localdomain> <20180622193522.GI7451@localhost.localdomain> <743d495e-51cd-8c8e-293e-026b8dece74a@redhat.com> <87lgb3xsv8.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <4292432f-5f26-6925-4c14-ad1370e36e5b@redhat.com> <20180625173056.GM7451@localhost.localdomain> <97504b42-9ebe-45c5-6ff3-b43102c8374a@redhat.com> From: Thomas Huth Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=thuth@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFH7eUwBEACzyOXKU+5Pcs6wNpKzrlJwzRl3VGZt95VCdb+FgoU9g11m7FWcOafrVRwU yYkTm9+7zBUc0sW5AuPGR/dp3pSLX/yFWsA/UB4nJsHqgDvDU7BImSeiTrnpMOTXb7Arw2a2 4CflIyFqjCpfDM4MuTmzTjXq4Uov1giGE9X6viNo1pxyEpd7PanlKNnf4PqEQp06X4IgUacW tSGj6Gcns1bCuHV8OPWLkf4hkRnu8hdL6i60Yxz4E6TqlrpxsfYwLXgEeswPHOA6Mn4Cso9O 0lewVYfFfsmokfAVMKWzOl1Sr0KGI5T9CpmRfAiSHpthhHWnECcJFwl72NTi6kUcUzG4se81 O6n9d/kTj7pzTmBdfwuOZ0YUSqcqs0W+l1NcASSYZQaDoD3/SLk+nqVeCBB4OnYOGhgmIHNW 0CwMRO/GK+20alxzk//V9GmIM2ACElbfF8+Uug3pqiHkVnKqM7W9/S1NH2qmxB6zMiJUHlTH gnVeZX0dgH27mzstcF786uPcdEqS0KJuxh2kk5IvUSL3Qn3ZgmgdxBMyCPciD/1cb7/Ahazr 3ThHQXSHXkH/aDXdfLsKVuwDzHLVSkdSnZdt5HHh75/NFHxwaTlydgfHmFFwodK8y/TjyiGZ zg2Kje38xnz8zKn9iesFBCcONXS7txENTzX0z80WKBhK+XSFJwARAQABzRxUaG9tYXMgSHV0 aCA8dGguaHV0aEBnbXguZGU+wsF7BBMBAgAlAhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIX gAUCUfuWKwIZAQAKCRAu2dd0/nAttbe/EACb9hafyOb2FmhUqeAiBORSsUifFacQ7laVjcgR I4um8CSHvxijYftpkM2EdAtmXIKgbNDpQoXcWLXB9lu9mLgTO4DVT00TRR65ikn3FCWcyT74 ENTOzRKyKLsDCjhXKPblTPIQbYAUCOWElcyAPm0ERd62fA/rKNxgIiNo/l4UODOMoOJm2/Ox ZoTckW68Eqv7k9L7m7j+Hn3hoDTjAmcCBJt+j7pOhzWvCbqoNOIH8C8qvPaNlrba+R/K6jkO 6jZkTbYQpGIofEQJ/TNn38IsNGpI1ALTHWFtoMxp3j2Imz0REO6dRE2fHRN8sVlHgkoeGhmY NbDsDE1jFQOEObFnu0euk//7BXU7tGOHckVAZ8T1smiRPHfQU7UEH2a/grndxJ+PNeM5w7n2 l+FN3cf2KgPotCK2s9MjSdZA7C5e3rFYO8lqiqTJKvc62vqp3e7B0Kjyy5/QtzSOejBij2QL xkKSFNtxIz4MtuxN8e3IDQNxsKry3nF7R4MDvouXlMo6wP9KuyNWb+vFJt9GtbgfDMIFVamp ZfhEWzWRJH4VgksENA4K/BzjEHCcbTUb1TFsiB1VRnBPJ0SqlvifnfKk6HcpkDk6Pg8Q5FOJ gbNHrdgXsm+m/9GF2zUUr+rOlhVbK23TUqKqPfwnD7uxjpakVcJnsVCFqJpZi1F/ga9IN87B TQRR+3lMARAAtp831HniPHb9AuKq3wj83ujZK8lH5RLrfVsB4X1wi47bwo56BqhXpR/zxPTR eOFT0gnbw9UkphVc7uk/alnXMDEmgvnuxv89PwIQX6k3qLABeV7ykJQG/WT5HQ6+2DdGtVw3 2vjYAPiWQeETsgWRRQMDR0/hwp8s8tL/UodwYCScH6Vxx9pdy353L1fK4Bb9G73a+9FPjp9l x+WwKTsltVqSBuSjyZQ3c3EE8qbTidXZxB38JwARH8yN3TX+t65cbBqLl/zRUUUTapHQpUEd yoAsHIml32e4q+3xdLtTdlLi7FgPBItSazcqZPjEcYW73UAuLcmQmfJlQ5PkDiuqcitn+KzH /1pqsTU7QFZjbmSMJyXY0TDErOFuMOjf20b6arcpEqse1V3IKrb+nqqA2azboRm3pEANLAJw iVTwK3qwGRgK5ut6N/Znv20VEHkFUsRAZoOusrIRfR5HFDxlXguAdEz8M/hxXFYYXqOoaCYy 6pJxTjy0Y/tIfmS/g9Bnp8qg9wsrsnk0+XRnDVPak++G3Uq9tJPwpJbyO0vcqEI3vAXkAB7X VXLzvFwi66RrsPUoDkuzj+aCNumtOePDOCpXQGPpKl+l1aYRMN/+lNSk3+1sVuc2C07WnYyE gV/cbEVklPmKrNwu6DeUyD0qI/bVzKMWZAiB1r56hsGeyYcAEQEAAcLBXwQYAQIACQUCUft5 TAIbDAAKCRAu2dd0/nAttYTwEACLAS/THRqXRKb17PQmKwZHerUvZm2klo+lwQ3wNQBHUJAT p2R9ULexyXrJPqjUpy7+voz+FcKiuQBTKyieiIxO46oMxsbXGZ70o3gxjxdYdgimUD6U8PPd JH8tfAL4BR5FZNjspcnscN2jgbF4OrpDeOLyBaj6HPmElNPtECHWCaf1xbIFsZxSDGMA6cUh 0uX3Q8VI7JN1AR2cfiIRY7NrIlWYucJxyKjO3ivWm69nCtsHiJ0wcF8KlVo7F2eLaufo0K8A ynL8SHMF3VEyxsXOP2f1UR9T2Ur30MXcTBpjUxml1TX3RWY5uH89Js/jlIugBwuAmacJ7JYh lTg6sF/GNc4nPb4kk2yktNWTade+TzsllYlJPaorD2Qe8qX0iFUhFC6y9+O6mP4ZvWoYapp9 ezYNuebMgEr93ob1+4sFg3812wNP01WqsGtWCJHnPv/JoonFdMzD/bIkXGEJMk6ks2kxQQZq g6Ik/s/vxOfao/xCn8nHt7GwvVy41795hzK6tbSl+BuyCRp0vfPRP34OnK7+jR2nvQpJu/pU rCELuGwT9hsYkUPjVd4lfylN3mzEc6iAv/wwjsc0DRTSQCpXT3v2ymTAsRKrVaEZLibTXaf+ WslxWek3xNYRiqwwWAJuL652eAlxUgQ5ZS+fXBRTiQpJ+F26I/2lccScRd9G5w== Message-ID: <54dfe708-cccf-c628-753f-692c83391ec4@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:40:56 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <97504b42-9ebe-45c5-6ff3-b43102c8374a@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.6 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.8]); Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:41:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.11.55.8]); Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:41:00 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'10.11.54.6' DOMAIN:'int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com' HELO:'smtp.corp.redhat.com' FROM:'thuth@redhat.com' RCPT:'' Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 66.187.233.73 Subject: Re: [Qemu-trivial] [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore X-BeenThere: qemu-trivial@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 04:41:08 -0000 On 25.06.2018 20:26, Paolo Bonzini wrote: > On 25/06/2018 19:30, Eduardo Habkost wrote: >>>> Attentive distros could even replace the wrapper script by a link. >>> If they are okay with replacing the "KVM only" semantics with "KVM or >>> TCG", which I think is generally worse. >> >> If we can't get agreement on what's the right default for each >> QEMU binary, I think that's yet another reason to document that >> upstream QEMU won't guarantee ABI compatibility if -accel is >> omitted. >=20 > Before that we should ask what the benefit is in changing the default > for qemu-system-*. Nobody is using it in practice to start QEMU with > KVM enabled... That's certainly not true. I've seen a couple of times already that people ask on IRC why their guests are running so slow, and if you ask them about their command line, it's obvious that they simply were not aware of "-accel" / "-enable-kvm" yet. Maybe we simply should add a "--verbose" command line option that people can use to diagnose their problems: $ qemu-system-x86_64 --verbose QEMU emulator version 2.12.50 Using 'tcg' accelerator. Use '-accel kvm' to speed things up. Machine type is 'pc-i440fx-3.0'. Use 'q35' for a more modern machine. .... Cheers, Thomas From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51748) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fXfmq-0005TE-VN for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:41:05 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fXfmn-0007rd-SR for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:41:05 -0400 References: <20180613151942.GC19901@redhat.com> <87k1r24quk.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <20180619171539.0adc90d6.cohuck@redhat.com> <20180622181108.GY7451@localhost.localdomain> <20180622193522.GI7451@localhost.localdomain> <743d495e-51cd-8c8e-293e-026b8dece74a@redhat.com> <87lgb3xsv8.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <4292432f-5f26-6925-4c14-ad1370e36e5b@redhat.com> <20180625173056.GM7451@localhost.localdomain> <97504b42-9ebe-45c5-6ff3-b43102c8374a@redhat.com> From: Thomas Huth Message-ID: <54dfe708-cccf-c628-753f-692c83391ec4@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:40:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <97504b42-9ebe-45c5-6ff3-b43102c8374a@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Paolo Bonzini , Eduardo Habkost Cc: Markus Armbruster , zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com, Ben Warren , qemu-trivial@nongnu.org, Cornelia Huck , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Stefan Hajnoczi On 25.06.2018 20:26, Paolo Bonzini wrote: > On 25/06/2018 19:30, Eduardo Habkost wrote: >>>> Attentive distros could even replace the wrapper script by a link. >>> If they are okay with replacing the "KVM only" semantics with "KVM or >>> TCG", which I think is generally worse. >> >> If we can't get agreement on what's the right default for each >> QEMU binary, I think that's yet another reason to document that >> upstream QEMU won't guarantee ABI compatibility if -accel is >> omitted. >=20 > Before that we should ask what the benefit is in changing the default > for qemu-system-*. Nobody is using it in practice to start QEMU with > KVM enabled... That's certainly not true. I've seen a couple of times already that people ask on IRC why their guests are running so slow, and if you ask them about their command line, it's obvious that they simply were not aware of "-accel" / "-enable-kvm" yet. Maybe we simply should add a "--verbose" command line option that people can use to diagnose their problems: $ qemu-system-x86_64 --verbose QEMU emulator version 2.12.50 Using 'tcg' accelerator. Use '-accel kvm' to speed things up. Machine type is 'pc-i440fx-3.0'. Use 'q35' for a more modern machine. .... Cheers, Thomas