Help output inconsistency: -v vs. -V

Help output inconsistency: -v vs. -V

[Andrei Borzenkov]

We currently have situation that C converted tools use -V for
--version and -v for --verbose while shell based tools (quite a lot
left) use -v for --version and most do not have --verbose at all.

-V is quite deep in argp, but of course it is possible to get rid of it
by basically replicating argp code in grub (OK, we do not need check
for any hooks as we know there are none). 

It's not really new, and had been this way for some time, just that in
the past C programs were considered "for internal use only" and now
they are user facing so it is incompatible change.

Just gathering opinions what would be preferable. 

Re: Help output inconsistency: -v vs. -V

[John Lane]

My natural inclination is to reach for "-v" when I want verbose output
from something and fall back to --verbose if that doesn't work. I
usually go straight for --version when wanting that info. So, "-V
for--version and -v for --verbose" works for me.

On 29/06/15 18:50, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
> We currently have situation that C converted tools use -V for
> --version and -v for --verbose while shell based tools (quite a lot
> left) use -v for --version and most do not have --verbose at all.
>
> -V is quite deep in argp, but of course it is possible to get rid of it
> by basically replicating argp code in grub (OK, we do not need check
> for any hooks as we know there are none). 
>
> It's not really new, and had been this way for some time, just that in
> the past C programs were considered "for internal use only" and now
> they are user facing so it is incompatible change.
>
> Just gathering opinions what would be preferable. 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>

Re: Help output inconsistency: -v vs. -V

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

John Lane wrote:
> My natural inclination is to reach for "-v" when I want verbose output

Same for me. -v for version seems odd.
(I am spoiled by archivers and data transfer programs.)

But since it is the old CLI, one would have to declare that
one obsolete and start a new rectified one. 


>  So, "-V for --version and -v for --verbose" works for me.

Since grub-mkrescue stays with automatic distinction of
own options and xorrisofs options, one would have to mention
in its docs that one has to use xorrisofs option "-volid"
rather than xorrisofs option "-V".

I personally would drop "-V" as grub-mkrescue option. It
collides with the traditional option set of mkisofs, which is
in use by many scripts for bootable ISOs.
Consuming it by grub-mkrescue would hamper the migration
from such scripts to grub-mkrescue.

Well, "--version" collides with the mkisofs-ish option set,
too. But i cannot think of a use case which needs to print
the version information in the course of ISO production.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Help output inconsistency: -v vs. -V

[Ben Hildred]

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On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> >  So, "-V for --version and -v for --verbose" works for me.
>
Have another endorsement from me, no charge.

> <snip>
> I personally would drop "-V" as grub-mkrescue option. It
> collides with the traditional option set of mkisofs, which is
> in use by many scripts for bootable ISOs.
> Consuming it by grub-mkrescue would hamper the migration
> from such scripts to grub-mkrescue.
>
Seconded.

>
> Well, "--version" collides with the mkisofs-ish option set,
> too. But i cannot think of a use case which needs to print
> the version information in the course of ISO production.
>
>  the one time when using grub-mkrescue where you would want to pass the
--version to the underlying tools is when you are using --version anyway.
How about when you run grub-mkrescue --version, it also calls the tools
with --version so you get something like :

grub-mkrescue (GRUB) 2.02~beta2-23 using /usr/bin/xorriso:
xorriso 1.3.2 : RockRidge filesystem manipulator, libburnia project.

mkisofs 2.01-Emulation Copyright (C) 2013 see libburnia-project.org xorriso
xorriso 1.3.2
ISO 9660 Rock Ridge filesystem manipulator and CD/DVD/BD burn program
Copyright (C) 2013, Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup@gmx.net>, libburnia project.
xorriso version   :  1.3.2
Version timestamp :  2013.08.07.110001
Build timestamp   :  -none-given-
libisofs   in use :  1.3.2  (min. 1.3.2)
libjte     in use :  1.0.0  (min. 1.0.0)
libburn    in use :  1.3.2  (min. 1.3.2)
libburn OS adapter:  internal GNU/Linux SG_IO adapter sg-linux
libisoburn in use :  1.3.2  (min. 1.3.2)
Provided under GNU GPL version 2 or later.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

This would make debugging easier in some cases. Also notice I included the
path to the executable being used, which also helps with path issues.

>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
>



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