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From: Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Cyrill Gorcunov <gorcunov@gmail.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	Pavel Emelyanov <xemul@parallels.com>,
	Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru>,
	Linux kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [regression] x86/signal/64: Fix SS handling for signals delivered to 64-bit programs breaks dosemu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:35:30 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55CD29C2.7060901@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFyFAiEEQB27GXkXvCQnfpXNQEsHwdBdzDZGM_5k93UqPw@mail.gmail.com>

On 08/13/15 16:18, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Linus Torvalds
> <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>> The _only_ thing that matters is that something broke.
> To clarify: things like test programs etc don't matter. Real
> applications, used by real users. That's what regressions cover. If
> you have a workflow that isn't just some random kernel test thing, and
> you depend on it, and we break it, the kernel is supposed to fix it.
>
> There are some (very few) exceptions.
>
> If it's a security issue, we may not be able to "fix" it, because
> other concerns can obviously take precedence.
>
> Also, sometimes the reports come in way too late - if you were running
> some stable distro kernel for several years, and updated, and notice a
> change that happened four years ago and modern applications now rely
> on the _new_ behavior, we may not be able to fix the regression any
> more.
>
> But no, "it was an unintentional kernel bug and clearly just stupid
> crap code, and we fixed it and now the kernel is much better and
> cleaner" is not a valid reason for regressions. We'll go back to the
> stupid and crap code if necessary, however much that may annoy us.
>
> For an example of the kind of things we may have to do, see commits
>
>      64f371bc3107 autofs: make the autofsv5 packet file descriptor use
> a packetized pipe
>      9883035ae7ed pipes: add a "packetized pipe" mode for writing
>
> and just wonder at the insanity. That's the kinds of things that
> happen when one application had actively worked around a bug in
> compatibility handling, and then trying to "fix" that bug just caused
> another application to break instead.
>
>                         Linus
Is there a way to temporally confine the bad crap code just to the 
applications that depend on it, or does a userspace app latching onto 
bad behavior effectively lock down the abi for the future?

I know that some features in the kernel get deprecated over a process 
(devfs for example) once userspace is given an alternative...would there 
be a process like that to deal with userspace code that is pinning a 
piece of crap in the kernel?

  reply	other threads:[~2015-08-13 23:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-08-12  0:17 [regression] x86/signal/64: Fix SS handling for signals delivered to 64-bit programs breaks dosemu Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12  0:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12  8:02   ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 16:19     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 17:00       ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 18:25         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 18:55           ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 19:20             ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 19:55               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 20:01                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 20:14                   ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 20:28                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 20:45                       ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 20:47                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 20:55                           ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 21:37                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-12 21:50                               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-12 22:00                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13  8:39                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2015-08-13 10:14                                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 12:44                                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 14:58                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 15:22                                         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 15:38                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 16:03                                             ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 16:09                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 16:20                                                 ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 16:24                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 16:38                                                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 16:42                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 16:48                                                         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 16:59                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 17:13                                                             ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 17:17                                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 18:00                                                                 ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 18:05                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 18:19                                                                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 18:25                                                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 18:35                                                                         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-22 12:38                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2015-08-22 14:19                                               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-23  6:25                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2015-08-13 11:08                                   ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 15:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 15:43   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 16:19     ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 16:23       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 16:34         ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 16:43           ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 16:44             ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 17:00     ` Brian Gerst
2015-08-18  6:29       ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-18 22:42         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-18 22:47           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-19  9:35             ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-19 15:46               ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-19 16:30                 ` Stas Sergeev
2015-09-02  5:12                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02  9:17                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-09-02 14:21                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02 15:02                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02 17:46                         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-09-02 18:17                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02 18:23                             ` Stas Sergeev
2015-09-02 19:06                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02 21:01                                 ` Stas Sergeev
2015-09-02 21:39                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02 22:25                                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-09-02 22:25                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-09-02 23:01                                         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-19 10:10           ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-19 15:35             ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-14  8:10     ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2015-08-13 17:51   ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 18:35     ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 18:41       ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 19:05         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 19:49           ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 20:09             ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 19:53         ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 20:08           ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2015-08-13 20:09             ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 21:42               ` Raymond Jennings
2015-08-13 21:46                 ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 22:01                   ` Raymond Jennings
2015-08-13 22:05                     ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 23:05                     ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 23:18                       ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 23:35                         ` Raymond Jennings [this message]
2015-08-13 23:43                         ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  0:02                           ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 22:02                   ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 22:11                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 22:25                       ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 22:29                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 22:51                           ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 23:00                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 23:17                               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  0:00                               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  0:05                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-14  0:17                                   ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  0:27                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-14  0:50                                       ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  1:21                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-14  1:32                                           ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  1:37                                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-14  2:03                                               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-18  6:19                                               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-14  0:08                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-14  0:24                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-14  0:40                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-14  7:22               ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2015-08-14 10:02                 ` Pavel Emelyanov
2015-08-14 10:53                   ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2015-08-13 18:57       ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 19:01         ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-13 19:13           ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 19:37             ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-13 19:59               ` Stas Sergeev
2015-08-13 20:07                 ` Linus Torvalds
2015-08-18  6:40                   ` Stas Sergeev

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