From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from [66.249.92.174] (helo=ug-out-1314.google.com) by linuxtogo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ID0WG-0002Ec-34 for openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:12:24 +0200 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id i24so1062523ugd for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.87.8 with SMTP id p8mr4248538ugl.1185207080586; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.20.110? ( [77.122.179.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b36sm12586663ika.2007.07.23.09.11.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:11:08 +0300 From: Paul Sokolovsky X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.64.01 Christmas Edition) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <741325336.20070723191108@gmail.com> To: Richard Purdie In-Reply-To: <1185187176.6148.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1736781229.20070723004348@gmail.com> <46A3D22A.20502@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl> <782493793.20070723025335@vanille-media.de> <1185187176.6148.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Dr. Mickey Lauer" , openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org, angstrom-distro-devel@linuxtogo.org Subject: Re: [Angstrom-devel] Legends, legends all around X-BeenThere: openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org List-Id: Using the OpenEmbedded metadata to build Distributions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:12:24 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Richard, Monday, July 23, 2007, 1:39:36 PM, you wrote: > On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 02:53 +0200, Dr. Michael Lauer wrote: >> *sigh* >> >> WTF is happening here? I don't know who did what and actually to be >> honest, I don't care, because I don't think we have enough resources >> to let such valuable contributors go away -- no matter how this >> incident started and who is responsible. >> >> That makes me sad. > You're not the only one. Rolf is (or was? :-( ) a valuable contributor > and I not happy he's felt he had to leave. It looks like acts from both > sides contributed towards this although I'm not going any further into > it as I don't think it will help. Given certain past experiences at > least one side should have known better, stepped back and asked someone > else to mediate or at least acted differently. > As a note to everyone else, if you are having problems with anyone else > on any project, do please talk to one of the other devs and see if the > situation can be solved *before* people feel their only option is to > walk out. > I know my time is limited and I can't watch as many mailing lists as > closely as I'd like but am prepared to try help when pointed at > something and I suspect this applies to other devs too. Yep, I wished someone lent Koen that book - "Producing Open Source Software" or made him read it if he has it. Maybe Holger, as teh book went to all GSoC students this year? But otherwise, it's clear that people lose patience and then temper in the situation we have - waiting for unclear which events to have a kind of milestone, for example, Angstrom release. And it seems that Angstrom maintainers follow the same wait-and-see attitude: people don't do it right, so let's wait while they do it right. And people have "opinions, opinions", so trying to do it right, they think about how to alleviate user downloads, about responsibilities of device mentors, and ... fork wiki so close to the expected release! And it's pretty clear why there was no RFC to switch to Mediawiki - such RFC would require analysis of pros and cons, and efforts for content migration. Just written as such, it would be rather clear that wiki switch is not reasonable topic for the near future. But instead of all that, absurd decision was made to just set up and announce a wiki fork. One absurd caused another one, and here we are with that rude action. So, IMHO, Angstrom maintainers should put more leadership into the thing, and not defensive like killing anyone who did something not fitting well, but active, working close on getting release out and requesting people to do things needed for that. > Richard - equally sad :-( Rolf has been doing lots of needed things while other developers worked on other aspects of OE/Angstrom, and it's just nonsense that such things happen so close to the point when we finally can have something out. -- Best regards, Paul mailto:pmiscml@gmail.com