From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Spam Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:34:36 +0200 Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <855536742.20040827133436@tnonline.net> References: <20040825212518.GK21964@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> <20040826001152.GB23423@mail.shareable.org> <20040826003055.GO21964@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> <20040826010049.GA24731@mail.shareable.org> <20040826100530.GA20805@taniwha.stupidest.org> <20040826110258.GC30449@mail.shareable.org> <412E06B2.7060106@pobox.com> <1093552705.5678.96.camel@krustophenia.net> <1093553429.13881.48.camel@leto.cs.pocnet.net> <1093553846.5678.102.camel@krustophenia.net> <20040827092131.GA1284@nysv.org> Reply-To: Spam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Return-path: In-Reply-To: <20040827092131.GA1284@nysv.org> List-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: =?ISO-8859-15?B?TWFya3VzIFT2cm5xdmlzdA==?= Cc: Lee Revell , Christophe Saout , Will Dyson , Jamie Lokier , Chris Wedgwood , viro@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk, Linus Torvalds , Christoph Hellwig , Hans Reiser , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , Alexander Lyamin aka FLX , ReiserFS List Hello Markus, Friday, August 27, 2004, 11:21:31 AM, you wrote: > On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 04:57:26PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote: >>On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 16:50, Christophe Saout wrote: >>> are read-only and system-wide and the user-overridden changes. I don't >>> know if all of these things would really make sense inside the kernel. >>True. FWIW, I never use most of those features. It's just too damn >>slow. Windows seems to implement all of the useful features of >>GnomeVFS, and they are 10x faster. > Are they in the kernel in Windows? Some are, some aren't :) Many of the features are between the FS and the application layers. Therefore they will work with all programs that use the Windows API to access files etc. I do not think that many programs actually access disks directly at the FS or below level. Exceptions would perhaps be file-recovery tools etc. Others are simply plugins to Windows Explorer. I don't know if all, any, or none, are installed at the kernel level. I doubt they are. But the problem with Linux seem to be that programs actually do access the FS directly. Therefore everything will break if you change the FS structures to much. Like I said, this is IMHO something that Linux should somehow solve. Applications should really not access the filesystems directly. Perhaps Grub and stuff like it should, but not many other. ~S From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263093AbUH0Lct (ORCPT ); Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:32:49 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263735AbUH0Lcs (ORCPT ); Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:32:48 -0400 Received: from c002781a.fit.bostream.se ([217.215.235.8]:57041 "EHLO mail.tnonline.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263093AbUH0Lcn (ORCPT ); Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:32:43 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:34:36 +0200 From: Spam Reply-To: Spam X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <855536742.20040827133436@tnonline.net> To: mjt@nysv.org (=?ISO-8859-15?B?TWFya3VzIFT2cm5xdmlzdA==?= ) CC: Lee Revell , Christophe Saout , Will Dyson , Jamie Lokier , Chris Wedgwood , , Linus Torvalds , Christoph Hellwig , Hans Reiser , , linux-kernel , Alexander Lyamin aka FLX , ReiserFS List Subject: Re: silent semantic changes with reiser4 In-Reply-To: <20040827092131.GA1284@nysv.org> References: <20040825212518.GK21964@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> <20040826001152.GB23423@mail.shareable.org> <20040826003055.GO21964@parcelfarce.linux.theplanet.co.uk> <20040826010049.GA24731@mail.shareable.org> <20040826100530.GA20805@taniwha.stupidest.org> <20040826110258.GC30449@mail.shareable.org> <412E06B2.7060106@pobox.com> <1093552705.5678.96.camel@krustophenia.net> <1093553429.13881.48.camel@leto.cs.pocnet.net> <1093553846.5678.102.camel@krustophenia.net> <20040827092131.GA1284@nysv.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Hello Markus, Friday, August 27, 2004, 11:21:31 AM, you wrote: > On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 04:57:26PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote: >>On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 16:50, Christophe Saout wrote: >>> are read-only and system-wide and the user-overridden changes. I don't >>> know if all of these things would really make sense inside the kernel. >>True. FWIW, I never use most of those features. It's just too damn >>slow. Windows seems to implement all of the useful features of >>GnomeVFS, and they are 10x faster. > Are they in the kernel in Windows? Some are, some aren't :) Many of the features are between the FS and the application layers. Therefore they will work with all programs that use the Windows API to access files etc. I do not think that many programs actually access disks directly at the FS or below level. Exceptions would perhaps be file-recovery tools etc. Others are simply plugins to Windows Explorer. I don't know if all, any, or none, are installed at the kernel level. I doubt they are. But the problem with Linux seem to be that programs actually do access the FS directly. Therefore everything will break if you change the FS structures to much. Like I said, this is IMHO something that Linux should somehow solve. Applications should really not access the filesystems directly. Perhaps Grub and stuff like it should, but not many other. ~S