From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1oPOuT-00053b-Ao for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 09:53:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40298) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPOuR-00053N-UZ for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 09:53:08 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x635.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]:33381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPOuQ-0000jY-9k for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 09:53:07 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id 2so6337890pll.0 for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 06:53:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=axtens.net; s=google; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:from:to:cc; bh=dPc0zP1LsXfAwBsFpbmQZq9C/uZ9pOzH/7SyBS1WqWU=; b=ag4g4l1wnrhg5OCJv9Ri7veapd5w+cihBw0vFNiyqwga0X2fNKNA37bRSE2K2HL7+0 20DT8XhYn1q1+A2sx6LHtiUzlVrkFbyPwXeDNxfJDTkOTVn5LLTbR2euN241wYOgVl5B KIRHnMS8UW3V/6OaBHgSyjhINqfOhEcKUGE/k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=dPc0zP1LsXfAwBsFpbmQZq9C/uZ9pOzH/7SyBS1WqWU=; b=jLa/gju/sJq0HPt9gQ92f/Ujm65os7/pzioVvhkqa8Fnr8FMfMMUnDxtDYKYRQwcHT OvaXCVt9ww64uuNYlszHDry3UiuNon7fQYPI+bJkrZ2Xm9BKj20eWH+gXo3atSUyhz/E FCtz9GXmuWlKWJgrR97YktP5dSKTcT3skXy1tyT2uFqIbeABaU/dUJED5rBLNwi46EHB JDyiJVKgJM6ABLBmCMEBSuxz/FeDCgL5fHgv2xZY18I2jxYKyE0mR5aOoV4M/vb2KtBg vPvrF6FtuS8tezR8xZo4/7R7DexnGhUxqJB+ZYPEA0iaKiN0ADWGrBeYeH1fBvF7tRJg D35g== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3Yef1Ls9YT+Gr9nVdLi2PK67I+VUl+3Xb4VMCUfvM21WfUka5F jLkGyRtlr0TAhfYDusQYG5S0Sb6W/5XTvw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6lLFuCniqHj5Mpwj/4YEypNw4XL31kLkBZn3Lx5F+GK2c8Q+vigw80JBtOA5DMGXBy5ePstQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:988:b0:1f2:3dff:f1dd with SMTP id 8-20020a17090a098800b001f23dfff1ddmr13985330pjo.150.1661003584171; Sat, 20 Aug 2022 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2001:4479:e300:5b00:c85d:e7b9:8f13:8764]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f132-20020a62388a000000b0052da654301esm5401242pfa.170.2022.08.20.06.53.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 20 Aug 2022 06:53:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Axtens To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , The development of GNU GRUB Subject: Re: [PATCH] Remove HFS support In-Reply-To: <0F68F479-0EC8-4BF8-B21D-81B5FC725226@physik.fu-berlin.de> References: <20220819135755.vpfkmfyvysmdbzov@tomti.i.net-space.pl> <0F68F479-0EC8-4BF8-B21D-81B5FC725226@physik.fu-berlin.de> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 23:53:00 +1000 Message-ID: <871qtbowcj.fsf@dja-thinkpad.axtens.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::635; envelope-from=dja@axtens.net; helo=mail-pl1-x635.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 13:53:08 -0000 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes: >> On Aug 19, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Daniel Kiper wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFOn Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 11:38:26PM +1000, Daniel Axtens wrote: >>> HFS is so so very old now. According to Wikipedia, HFS was >>> introduced in 1985 and the successor HFS+ came out in January >>> 1998. Mac OS dropped support for writing HFS in 2009 and dropped >>> support for reading HFS in 2019 with macOS 10.15. >>>=20 >>> Grub's support for it doesn't survive contact with a fuzzer, and >>> the issues involve some horrible mess of mutual recursion that >>> would be time-consuming to sort out. >>>=20 >>> HFS has been disabled under lockdown since commit 1c15848838d9 >>> ("fs/hfs: Disable under lockdown") which was part of an earlier >>> spin of security fixes. >>>=20 >>> I think it's time to consign HFS to the dustbin of history. It's >>> firmly in the category of retrocomputing at this stage. >>>=20 >>> This should not affect HFS+. >>>=20 >>> There's a little bit of mess remaining: the macbless runtime >>> command and HFS+ need the HFS headers for embedded volume support. >>> I don't think that's really deployed any more, as it would have >>> been part of the HFS->HFS+ transition, but I'm not really game to >>> mess with either, in particular as macbless writes(!) to disk live. >>> (I'm fairly sure the grub-macbless tool invokes code from the >>> macbless module as well.) >>>=20 >>> Signed-off-by: Daniel Axtens >>=20 >> Reviewed-by: Daniel Kiper >>=20 >> Daniel, thank you for preparing this patch! >>=20 >> If I do not hear any major objections in the following weeks I will >> merge this patch or a variant of it in the second half of September. > > We=E2=80=99re still formatting our /boot partitions for Debian PowerPC fo= r PowerMacs using HFS, so this change would be a breaking change for us. > Really, plain HFS, not HFS+? Wowsers! Just to be clear, by PowerMacs you mean Macs with PowerPC chips, so machines last produced around 2006? Have you checked that you can't boot them with HFS+? Because HFS+ came in 1998, which was (AFAICT) pretty early on in the G3 lifecycle. So I'd be really surprised if the firmware didn't support booting from HFS+. I'd be very keen to hear. Anyway, if I've understood correctly, the _most recent_ PowerMacs date from around 16 years ago, and potentially the machines broken by this would be even older. I still think that's in the domain of retrocomputing and I don't understand the use case for running modern software on something where the performance per watt is worse than a recent raspberry pi. Kind regards, Daniel