From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25528C83F1A for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 18:10:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ucT37-0008PD-I0; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 14:09:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ucQOB-00033B-8w for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:19:19 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ucQNp-0003f7-9P for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:19:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1752765529; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jRw19WaZX8OHqHgr3p74vXY3BrDW8uDvIN+4MIF95WU=; b=bOs/sd+P+idxwymDLG1/N1teHT5aJCavTI5NCwPL8PtKZ7jRa3A/ciNKA44FfwL+ZJDzBs wOSls+rlLd/lf9w5HYirUP4kqGAztyeEg01UN5ZRu/Duxx+PliDuNl2s/Q/e0Z2naKNXKM mIteUiv+nT4FveG7P1Swk7VkKU5SlTo= Received: from mx-prod-mc-06.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (ec2-35-165-154-97.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com [35.165.154.97]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-648-pSMrzxUONO-vVagWhWK8pA-1; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:18:47 -0400 X-MC-Unique: pSMrzxUONO-vVagWhWK8pA-1 X-Mimecast-MFC-AGG-ID: pSMrzxUONO-vVagWhWK8pA_1752765527 Received: from mx-prod-int-02.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (mx-prod-int-02.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com [10.30.177.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx-prod-mc-06.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B70FE1855151 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 15:17:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.44.33.147]) by mx-prod-int-02.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08F271955F22; Thu, 17 Jul 2025 15:17:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Cornelia Huck To: =?utf-8?Q?Daniel_P=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= , Andrea Bolognani Cc: Paolo Bonzini , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , qemu-devel@nongnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] watchdog: generic name for i6300esb In-Reply-To: Organization: "Red Hat GmbH, Sitz: Werner-von-Siemens-Ring 12, D-85630 Grasbrunn, Handelsregister: Amtsgericht =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=BCnchen=2C?= HRB 153243, =?utf-8?Q?Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer=3A?= Ryan Barnhart, Charles Cachera, Avril Crosse O'Flaherty" References: <20250610143259.1056400-1-cohuck@redhat.com> <20250610143259.1056400-3-cohuck@redhat.com> <877c09792e.fsf@redhat.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.38.3 (https://notmuchmail.org) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2025 17:17:42 +0200 Message-ID: <874iva7so9.fsf@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.0 on 10.30.177.15 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=cohuck@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On Tue, Jul 15 2025, Daniel P. Berrang=C3=A9 wrote: > On Tue, Jul 15, 2025 at 09:16:24AM -0700, Andrea Bolognani wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 15, 2025 at 05:02:54PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrang=C3=A9 wrote: >> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2025 at 05:44:25PM +0200, Cornelia Huck wrote: >> > > Hmm. So >> > > - request a new PCI id (probably in the PCI_DEVICE_ID_REDHAT_* space) >> > > - restructure to have two devices base off the same core functionali= ty >> > > - teach guest operating systems about the new device >> > > - teach management software like libvirt about the new device >> > > >> > > Not sure how fast we can get an ID (or even how to go about it.) The >> > > second step should be reasonably easy. The third step is the most >> > > complex one, but at least teaching Linux should hopefully be easy >> > > enough, and existing guest operating systems could continue to use t= he >> > > existing device. The last step is probably not that bad. >> > > >> > > I can start down that path, if we have some consensus that this is t= he >> > > right way to handle this. >> > > >> > > I'd still argue that patch 1 should be applied regardless :) >> > >> > This sounds like a hell of alot of busy work to fix a problem that, II= UC, >> > does not actually exist from a functional POV - it is merely a percept= ion >> > issue that people might be put off by the "Intel 6300ESB" names. >> > >> > IMHO a better use of time is to expand documentation to clarify this is >> > just fine for all PCI architectures, and change nothing in either QEMU >> > or guest kernels. >>=20 >> Agreed that it's not the most high-reward endeavor, but IIRC users >> were getting genuinely confused and annoyed by the string "Intel" >> showing up in their aarch64 guests. > > So be it, that's far from the only wierd thing in virt. So I'm wondering what the general sentiment is towards having an "Intel" device show up in your non-Intel guest. This device is generic enough to be included in PCI_DEVICES, and should be usable on any of those platforms. Linux treats this as a generic PCI driver as well. Do we know what Windows on non-x86 expects? The *BSDs? Others? > >> You can point them to documentation over and over again, or you can >> work to prevent the confusion/annoyance from showing up in the first >> place. Which of the two approaches is a better use of anyone's time >> is up for debate. >>=20 >> I for one am grateful that someone put the time in all those years >> ago and, as a result, PCI and USB controllers don't suffer from the >> problem today. Ultimately it's up to Connie though. > > The PCI/USB controller situation is not the same tradeoff though. > Those guest kernel drivers will identify and attach to these two > controllers regardless of their PCI vendor/product, via the PCI > class property. In that case changing the PCI ID and other device > metadata in QEMU is cheap as it has no negative impact on guest OS > driver compibility. > > In the case of 6300ESB though the guest driver is tied directly to > the currently used PCI device product/vendor ID. > > If we change this then we have actually created new functional > problems with guest/QEMU compatibility, in order to placate a > non-functional problem. That is not a good thing. I don't think the suggestion was to disable the existing driver on non-Intel setups, but to add a more generic one. Still, more work to get this actually propagated into guests than doing the change in QEMU. Before I start down that route, I'd like to know whether the issue is actually big enough to make investing time there worth it.