From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from mm01.cs.columbia.edu (mm01.cs.columbia.edu [128.59.11.253]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3F4C433F5 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:57:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mm01.cs.columbia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760374B154; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:57:05 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: at lists.cs.columbia.edu Authentication-Results: mm01.cs.columbia.edu (amavisd-new); dkim=softfail (fail, message has been altered) header.i=@kernel.org Received: from mm01.cs.columbia.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mm01.cs.columbia.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYOznSaeiYrT; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mm01.cs.columbia.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mm01.cs.columbia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BAC14B12E; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mm01.cs.columbia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1B14B12E for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: at lists.cs.columbia.edu Received: from mm01.cs.columbia.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mm01.cs.columbia.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4JiRQ8zqGxaj for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw.source.kernel.org (dfw.source.kernel.org [139.178.84.217]) by mm01.cs.columbia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 613B44B116 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.kernel.org (relay.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dfw.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BF56614A1; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:57:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A41EAC34601; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:57:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1639483020; bh=FAheOAFVBOjbmeJ7xmDDDgpCkGhFGIolFk++QjIuXr8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=cpJUazKFcOPowGzUzudZZczu2nt8pB6Wb1aWPK4EIsqlb3T37LIQ5xD99xqod1olO sM+mED4FuNob6zZ3juRRsA6HHntiBXuxB/Uegkx23N4KCCPAQlGVgc/iGJnw5W30bF ho+XHKHnRYvqQEBcmCDZnVKdLFZjMJqPeXMip5BGNC3+lBcM0mRmlCeMxJK8uHLELI lSTtDD2f5svTQC2EeZ/I+1PJT21YVsx8QVrF/D09G0JqTwuv/l8omtSirzvaRB29/M M1Qdc0e0jRFpL/iLmlaQTzLDRNFE68rcYpWnqiLHzy7kqNITKFl9eoMF4cTrw1SkOc NT5vq9eJJvzPg== Received: from cfbb000407.r.cam.camfibre.uk ([185.219.108.64] helo=why.misterjones.org) by disco-boy.misterjones.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mx6QU-00C2AI-BO; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:56:58 +0000 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:56:57 +0000 Message-ID: <874k7bjt6e.wl-maz@kernel.org> From: Marc Zyngier To: Reiji Watanabe Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] KVM: arm64: Improve PMU support on heterogeneous systems In-Reply-To: References: <20211206170223.309789-1-alexandru.elisei@arm.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM-LB/1.14.9 (=?UTF-8?B?R29qxY0=?=) APEL-LB/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/27.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 185.219.108.64 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: reijiw@google.com, alexandru.elisei@arm.com, james.morse@arm.com, suzuki.poulose@arm.com, will@kernel.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu, tglx@linutronix.de, mingo@redhat.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: maz@kernel.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on disco-boy.misterjones.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: will@kernel.org, mingo@redhat.com, tglx@linutronix.de, kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-BeenThere: kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Where KVM/ARM decisions are made List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: kvmarm-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu Sender: kvmarm-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:24:38 +0000, Reiji Watanabe wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 3:14 AM Alexandru Elisei > wrote: > > > > Also, as VCPUs get migrated from one physical CPU to the other, the > > semantics of the microarchitectural events change, even if the event ID is > > the same. > > Yes, I understand. As mentioned, this can work only when the > CPU affinity is set for vCPU threads appropriately (, which could > be done even without changing userspace). Implicit bindings to random PMUs based on the scheduling seems a pretty fragile API to me, and presents no real incentive for userspace to start doing the right thing. I'd prefer not counting events at all when on the wrong CPU (for some definition of 'wrong'), rather than accumulating unrelated events. Both are admittedly wrong, but between two evils, I'd rather stick with the one I know (and that doesn't require any change)... Alex's series brings a way to solve this by allowing userspace to pick a PMU and make sure userspace is aware of the consequences. It puts userspace in charge, and doesn't leave space for ambiguous behaviours. I definitely find value in this approach. M. -- Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. _______________________________________________ kvmarm mailing list kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/kvmarm From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FA76C433F5 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 12:06:42 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post: List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To: Subject:Cc:To:From:Message-ID:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: List-Owner; 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Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:57:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A41EAC34601; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:57:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1639483020; bh=FAheOAFVBOjbmeJ7xmDDDgpCkGhFGIolFk++QjIuXr8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=cpJUazKFcOPowGzUzudZZczu2nt8pB6Wb1aWPK4EIsqlb3T37LIQ5xD99xqod1olO sM+mED4FuNob6zZ3juRRsA6HHntiBXuxB/Uegkx23N4KCCPAQlGVgc/iGJnw5W30bF ho+XHKHnRYvqQEBcmCDZnVKdLFZjMJqPeXMip5BGNC3+lBcM0mRmlCeMxJK8uHLELI lSTtDD2f5svTQC2EeZ/I+1PJT21YVsx8QVrF/D09G0JqTwuv/l8omtSirzvaRB29/M M1Qdc0e0jRFpL/iLmlaQTzLDRNFE68rcYpWnqiLHzy7kqNITKFl9eoMF4cTrw1SkOc NT5vq9eJJvzPg== Received: from cfbb000407.r.cam.camfibre.uk ([185.219.108.64] helo=why.misterjones.org) by disco-boy.misterjones.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mx6QU-00C2AI-BO; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:56:58 +0000 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 11:56:57 +0000 Message-ID: <874k7bjt6e.wl-maz@kernel.org> From: Marc Zyngier To: Reiji Watanabe Cc: Alexandru Elisei , james.morse@arm.com, suzuki.poulose@arm.com, will@kernel.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu, tglx@linutronix.de, mingo@redhat.com Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] KVM: arm64: Improve PMU support on heterogeneous systems In-Reply-To: References: <20211206170223.309789-1-alexandru.elisei@arm.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM-LB/1.14.9 (=?UTF-8?B?R29qxY0=?=) APEL-LB/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/27.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 185.219.108.64 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: reijiw@google.com, alexandru.elisei@arm.com, james.morse@arm.com, suzuki.poulose@arm.com, will@kernel.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, kvmarm@lists.cs.columbia.edu, tglx@linutronix.de, mingo@redhat.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: maz@kernel.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on disco-boy.misterjones.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20211214_035702_925564_AFA796C8 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 20.31 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 06:24:38 +0000, Reiji Watanabe wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 3:14 AM Alexandru Elisei > wrote: > > > > Also, as VCPUs get migrated from one physical CPU to the other, the > > semantics of the microarchitectural events change, even if the event ID is > > the same. > > Yes, I understand. As mentioned, this can work only when the > CPU affinity is set for vCPU threads appropriately (, which could > be done even without changing userspace). Implicit bindings to random PMUs based on the scheduling seems a pretty fragile API to me, and presents no real incentive for userspace to start doing the right thing. I'd prefer not counting events at all when on the wrong CPU (for some definition of 'wrong'), rather than accumulating unrelated events. Both are admittedly wrong, but between two evils, I'd rather stick with the one I know (and that doesn't require any change)... Alex's series brings a way to solve this by allowing userspace to pick a PMU and make sure userspace is aware of the consequences. It puts userspace in charge, and doesn't leave space for ambiguous behaviours. I definitely find value in this approach. M. -- Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel