From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BB8C10DCE for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 770942072C for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:23 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 770942072C Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3769A88BD2; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U9SjPCceskvz; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.linuxfoundation.org (lf-lists.osuosl.org [140.211.9.56]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067BD88BA4; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lf-lists.osuosl.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A69C089F; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C76C0177; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28FF288C29; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OjOR5wGK5Rtw; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mga18.intel.com (mga18.intel.com [134.134.136.126]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6BED88C23; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Amp-Result: SKIPPED(no attachment in message) X-Amp-File-Uploaded: False Received: from orsmga008.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.65]) by orsmga106.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Mar 2020 07:10:12 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.70,548,1574150400"; d="scan'208";a="237232618" Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) ([10.252.52.87]) by orsmga008-auth.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Mar 2020 07:10:09 -0700 From: Jani Nikula To: Steven Rostedt , Geert Uytterhoeven In-Reply-To: <20200313081216.627c5bdf@gandalf.local.home> Organization: Intel Finland Oy - BIC 0357606-4 - Westendinkatu 7, 02160 Espoo References: <6d6dd6fa-880f-01fe-6177-281572aed703@labbott.name> <20200312003436.GF1639@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <20200313031947.GC225435@mit.edu> <87d09gljhj.fsf@intel.com> <20200313093548.GA2089143@kroah.com> <24c64c56-947b-4267-33b8-49a22f719c81@suse.cz> <20200313100755.GA2161605@kroah.com> <20200313103720.GA2215823@kroah.com> <20200313081216.627c5bdf@gandalf.local.home> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:10:29 +0200 Message-ID: <874kusl50q.fsf@intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Vlastimil Babka , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] Linux Foundation Technical Advisory Board Elections -- Change to charter X-BeenThere: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Sender: "Ksummit-discuss" On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:50:45 +0100 > Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > >> > > > Given that before now, there has not be any way to vote for the TAB >> > > > remotely, it's less restrictive :) >> > > >> > > But people without kernel.org accounts could still vote in person before, >> > > right? >> > >> > Yes, and they still can today, this is expanding the pool, not >> > restricting it. >> >> Oh right, assumed we'll still have a conference in person, and unrestricted >> travel. > > Correct. But if we don't change the voting requirements, and the conference > is canceled, or people are restricted from traveling, then those people > will not be able to vote with the current charter. > > We are trying to extend who can vote beyond those that the charter allows. > We are not preventing those that can vote under the current rules from > voting. IIUC, we are trying to create absentee voting which we never had > before. Thus, you can either vote the current way by getting travel to > wherever Kernel Summit is and attending the conference, or we can extend > the charter so that if you can not come for whatever reason, you have an > option to vote remotely, if you satisfy the new requirements. Remember, not > attending means you do not satisfy the current requirements. > > The TAB has bikeshed this a bit internally, and came up with the conclusion > that kernel.org accounts is a very good "first step". If this proves to be > a problem, we can look at something else. This is why we are being a bit > vague in the changes so that if something better comes along we can switch > to that. After some experience in various methods (if we try various > methods), we could always make whatever method works best as an official > method at a later time. > > But for now, we need to come up with something that makes it hard for > ballot stuffing, and a kernel.org account (plus activity in the kernel) > appears to be the best solution we know of. Thanks for writing this. I, for one, would welcome more open and proactive communication from the TAB. Have you considered whether the eligibility for running and voting should be made the same? As it is, absolutely anyone can self-nominate and run. BR, Jani. -- Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center _______________________________________________ Ksummit-discuss mailing list Ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-discuss From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: From: Jani Nikula In-Reply-To: <20200313081216.627c5bdf@gandalf.local.home> References: <6d6dd6fa-880f-01fe-6177-281572aed703@labbott.name> <20200312003436.GF1639@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <20200313031947.GC225435@mit.edu> <87d09gljhj.fsf@intel.com> <20200313093548.GA2089143@kroah.com> <24c64c56-947b-4267-33b8-49a22f719c81@suse.cz> <20200313100755.GA2161605@kroah.com> <20200313103720.GA2215823@kroah.com> <20200313081216.627c5bdf@gandalf.local.home> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:10:29 +0200 Message-ID: <874kusl50q.fsf@intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: [Tech-board-discuss] [Ksummit-discuss] Linux Foundation Technical Advisory Board Elections -- Change to charter List-Id: Public TAB discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Steven Rostedt , Geert Uytterhoeven Cc: "tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Vlastimil Babka , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:50:45 +0100 > Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > >> > > > Given that before now, there has not be any way to vote for the TAB >> > > > remotely, it's less restrictive :) >> > > >> > > But people without kernel.org accounts could still vote in person before, >> > > right? >> > >> > Yes, and they still can today, this is expanding the pool, not >> > restricting it. >> >> Oh right, assumed we'll still have a conference in person, and unrestricted >> travel. > > Correct. But if we don't change the voting requirements, and the conference > is canceled, or people are restricted from traveling, then those people > will not be able to vote with the current charter. > > We are trying to extend who can vote beyond those that the charter allows. > We are not preventing those that can vote under the current rules from > voting. IIUC, we are trying to create absentee voting which we never had > before. Thus, you can either vote the current way by getting travel to > wherever Kernel Summit is and attending the conference, or we can extend > the charter so that if you can not come for whatever reason, you have an > option to vote remotely, if you satisfy the new requirements. Remember, not > attending means you do not satisfy the current requirements. > > The TAB has bikeshed this a bit internally, and came up with the conclusion > that kernel.org accounts is a very good "first step". If this proves to be > a problem, we can look at something else. This is why we are being a bit > vague in the changes so that if something better comes along we can switch > to that. After some experience in various methods (if we try various > methods), we could always make whatever method works best as an official > method at a later time. > > But for now, we need to come up with something that makes it hard for > ballot stuffing, and a kernel.org account (plus activity in the kernel) > appears to be the best solution we know of. Thanks for writing this. I, for one, would welcome more open and proactive communication from the TAB. Have you considered whether the eligibility for running and voting should be made the same? As it is, absolutely anyone can self-nominate and run. BR, Jani. -- Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05A2C2BB1D for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F01B2073E for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726898AbgCMOKN (ORCPT ); Fri, 13 Mar 2020 10:10:13 -0400 Received: from mga03.intel.com ([134.134.136.65]:1279 "EHLO mga03.intel.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726779AbgCMOKM (ORCPT ); Fri, 13 Mar 2020 10:10:12 -0400 X-Amp-Result: SKIPPED(no attachment in message) X-Amp-File-Uploaded: False Received: from orsmga008.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.65]) by orsmga103.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Mar 2020 07:10:12 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.70,548,1574150400"; d="scan'208";a="237232618" Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) ([10.252.52.87]) by orsmga008-auth.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Mar 2020 07:10:09 -0700 From: Jani Nikula To: Steven Rostedt , Geert Uytterhoeven Cc: Vlastimil Babka , "ksummit-discuss\@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "tech-board-discuss\@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "linux-kernel\@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] Linux Foundation Technical Advisory Board Elections -- Change to charter In-Reply-To: <20200313081216.627c5bdf@gandalf.local.home> Organization: Intel Finland Oy - BIC 0357606-4 - Westendinkatu 7, 02160 Espoo References: <6d6dd6fa-880f-01fe-6177-281572aed703@labbott.name> <20200312003436.GF1639@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <20200313031947.GC225435@mit.edu> <87d09gljhj.fsf@intel.com> <20200313093548.GA2089143@kroah.com> <24c64c56-947b-4267-33b8-49a22f719c81@suse.cz> <20200313100755.GA2161605@kroah.com> <20200313103720.GA2215823@kroah.com> <20200313081216.627c5bdf@gandalf.local.home> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:10:29 +0200 Message-ID: <874kusl50q.fsf@intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Fri, 13 Mar 2020, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 11:50:45 +0100 > Geert Uytterhoeven wrote: > >> > > > Given that before now, there has not be any way to vote for the TAB >> > > > remotely, it's less restrictive :) >> > > >> > > But people without kernel.org accounts could still vote in person before, >> > > right? >> > >> > Yes, and they still can today, this is expanding the pool, not >> > restricting it. >> >> Oh right, assumed we'll still have a conference in person, and unrestricted >> travel. > > Correct. But if we don't change the voting requirements, and the conference > is canceled, or people are restricted from traveling, then those people > will not be able to vote with the current charter. > > We are trying to extend who can vote beyond those that the charter allows. > We are not preventing those that can vote under the current rules from > voting. IIUC, we are trying to create absentee voting which we never had > before. Thus, you can either vote the current way by getting travel to > wherever Kernel Summit is and attending the conference, or we can extend > the charter so that if you can not come for whatever reason, you have an > option to vote remotely, if you satisfy the new requirements. Remember, not > attending means you do not satisfy the current requirements. > > The TAB has bikeshed this a bit internally, and came up with the conclusion > that kernel.org accounts is a very good "first step". If this proves to be > a problem, we can look at something else. This is why we are being a bit > vague in the changes so that if something better comes along we can switch > to that. After some experience in various methods (if we try various > methods), we could always make whatever method works best as an official > method at a later time. > > But for now, we need to come up with something that makes it hard for > ballot stuffing, and a kernel.org account (plus activity in the kernel) > appears to be the best solution we know of. Thanks for writing this. I, for one, would welcome more open and proactive communication from the TAB. Have you considered whether the eligibility for running and voting should be made the same? As it is, absolutely anyone can self-nominate and run. BR, Jani. -- Jani Nikula, Intel Open Source Graphics Center