From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-path: Received: from mail.toke.dk ([2a00:7660:6da:2001::664]) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.90_1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1gwxBA-0001KV-OL for ath10k@lists.infradead.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:50:59 +0000 From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/2] ath10k: Set sk_pacing_shift to 6 for 11AC WiFi chips In-Reply-To: <80d93903-0aac-ebde-711f-4d4254275aad@candelatech.com> References: <1533724802-30944-1-git-send-email-wgong@codeaurora.org> <1533724802-30944-3-git-send-email-wgong@codeaurora.org> <87sh3pdtpg.fsf@toke.dk> <87mutue4y8.fsf@toke.dk> <1535967508.3437.31.camel@sipsolutions.net> <87in3m25uu.fsf@toke.dk> <1535975240.3437.61.camel@sipsolutions.net> <878t4i1z74.fsf@toke.dk> <871sa7ylmi.fsf@toke.dk> <87r2c1i1vj.fsf@toke.dk> <871s41nmvx.fsf@kamboji.qca.qualcomm.com> <87ftshhzby.fsf@toke.dk> <587631dd-f96a-999a-d61d-e5df5796766f@candelatech.com> <87d0nlhxl9.fsf@toke.dk> <80d93903-0aac-ebde-711f-4d4254275aad@candelatech.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 23:50:53 +0100 Message-ID: <877edsiwmq.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "ath10k" Errors-To: ath10k-bounces+kvalo=adurom.com@lists.infradead.org To: Ben Greear , Kalle Valo Cc: Kan Yan , wgong@qti.qualcomm.com, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, ath10k@lists.infradead.org, Grant Grundler , wgong@codeaurora.org, Johannes Berg QmVuIEdyZWVhciA8Z3JlZWFyYkBjYW5kZWxhdGVjaC5jb20+IHdyaXRlczoKCj4gT24gMi8yMS8x OSA5OjE1IEFNLCBUb2tlIEjDuGlsYW5kLUrDuHJnZW5zZW4gd3JvdGU6Cj4+IEJlbiBHcmVlYXIg PGdyZWVhcmJAY2FuZGVsYXRlY2guY29tPiB3cml0ZXM6Cj4+IAo+Pj4gT24gMi8yMS8xOSA4OjM3 IEFNLCBUb2tlIEjDuGlsYW5kLUrDuHJnZW5zZW4gd3JvdGU6Cj4+Pj4gQmVuIEdyZWVhciA8Z3Jl ZWFyYkBjYW5kZWxhdGVjaC5jb20+IHdyaXRlczoKPj4+Pgo+Pj4+PiBPbiAyLzIxLzE5IDg6MTAg 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U3VyZSwgSSBjYW4gc3VibWl0IHN0YWJsZSBiYWNrcG9ydHMgaWYgbmVlZGVkIDopCgotVG9rZQoK X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KYXRoMTBrIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdAphdGgxMGtAbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFk ZWFkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2F0aDEwawo= From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.1 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69619C43381 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:50:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBB8207E0 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:50:57 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=toke.dk header.i=@toke.dk header.b="w71j7ra6" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726165AbfBUWu4 (ORCPT ); Thu, 21 Feb 2019 17:50:56 -0500 Received: from mail.toke.dk ([52.28.52.200]:43919 "EHLO mail.toke.dk" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1725891AbfBUWu4 (ORCPT ); Thu, 21 Feb 2019 17:50:56 -0500 From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1550789453; bh=rck1L1ytbWxb48UIhfU7Qk2q+97QXhBlJpdKc4h7+ro=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=w71j7ra6xofnWFVtgkKHrJopMvrNQ7s0bmMdE2N0MxmeB6BX232z9QwCWLxez19BS TZxpF2Q/HF8uGBpKOiUECb/d32oHfCtvKYaw3TpEkzbMntgTm4OGTUl9aubZkHNgtF BQ6Zq2HMUi3YVG3OJhC5ayaGpzmxBtnhYZf78nlJUbox0q0uXa4p2PlCvOQhpar6jO 3bi33wE6GD0RZjzCSVR1aiT7SoybYLidtLxOOa6uqVU8kzfHSdW8KDfh/b22op3ZC9 Pi2YA8xiRDv81Gg/NH5se86G/f5fpZwyDzhqQ+kYExIyuqRULC2GaMZLcZ9EA6FDJc P3O1jYZGTLgzg== To: Ben Greear , Kalle Valo Cc: Grant Grundler , Kan Yan , linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, Johannes Berg , wgong@qti.qualcomm.com, ath10k@lists.infradead.org, wgong@codeaurora.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/2] ath10k: Set sk_pacing_shift to 6 for 11AC WiFi chips In-Reply-To: <80d93903-0aac-ebde-711f-4d4254275aad@candelatech.com> References: <1533724802-30944-1-git-send-email-wgong@codeaurora.org> <1533724802-30944-3-git-send-email-wgong@codeaurora.org> <87sh3pdtpg.fsf@toke.dk> <87mutue4y8.fsf@toke.dk> <1535967508.3437.31.camel@sipsolutions.net> <87in3m25uu.fsf@toke.dk> <1535975240.3437.61.camel@sipsolutions.net> <878t4i1z74.fsf@toke.dk> <871sa7ylmi.fsf@toke.dk> <87r2c1i1vj.fsf@toke.dk> <871s41nmvx.fsf@kamboji.qca.qualcomm.com> <87ftshhzby.fsf@toke.dk> <587631dd-f96a-999a-d61d-e5df5796766f@candelatech.com> <87d0nlhxl9.fsf@toke.dk> <80d93903-0aac-ebde-711f-4d4254275aad@candelatech.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 23:50:53 +0100 X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <877edsiwmq.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: linux-wireless-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org Ben Greear writes: > On 2/21/19 9:15 AM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: >> Ben Greear writes: >>=20 >>> On 2/21/19 8:37 AM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: >>>> Ben Greear writes: >>>> >>>>> On 2/21/19 8:10 AM, Kalle Valo wrote: >>>>>> Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Grant Grundler writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 3:18 AM Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Grant Grundler writes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> And, well, Grant's data is from a single test in a noisy >>>>>>>>>>> environment where the time series graph shows that throughput i= s all over >>>>>>>>>>> the place for the duration of the test; so it's hard to draw so= lid >>>>>>>>>>> conclusions from (for instance, for the 5-stream test, the aver= age >>>>>>>>>>> throughput for 6 is 331 and 379 Mbps for the two repetitions, a= nd for 7 >>>>>>>>>>> it's 326 and 371 Mbps) . Unfortunately I don't have the same ha= rdware >>>>>>>>>>> used in this test, so I can't go verify it myself; so the only = thing I >>>>>>>>>>> can do is grumble about it here... :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It's a fair complaint and I agree with it. My counter argument i= s the >>>>>>>>>> opposite is true too: most ideal benchmarks don't measure what m= ost >>>>>>>>>> users see. While the data wgong provided are way more noisy than= I >>>>>>>>>> like, my overall "confidence" in the "conclusion" I offered is s= till >>>>>>>>>> positive. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right. I guess I would just prefer a slightly more comprehensive >>>>>>>>> evaluation to base a 4x increase in buffer size on... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kalle, is this why you didn't accept this patch? Other reasons? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Toke, what else would you like to see evaluated? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I generally want to see three things measured when "benchmarking" >>>>>>>> technologies: throughput, latency, cpu utilization >>>>>>>> We've covered those three I think "reasonably". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hmm, going back and looking at this (I'd completely forgotten about= this >>>>>>> patch), I think I had two main concerns: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. What happens in a degraded signal situation, where the throughpu= t is >>>>>>> limited by the signal conditions, or by contention with other= devices. >>>>>>> Both of these happen regularly, and I worry that latency will= be >>>>>>> badly affected under those conditions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. What happens with old hardware that has worse buffer management = in >>>>>>> the driver->firmware path (especially drivers without push/pu= ll mode >>>>>>> support)? For these, the lower-level queueing structure is le= ss >>>>>>> effective at controlling queueing latency. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do note that this patch changes behaviour _only_ for QCA6174 and QCA= 9377 >>>>>> PCI devices, which IIRC do not even support push/pull mode. All the >>>>>> rest, including QCA988X and QCA9984 are unaffected. >>>>> >>>>> Just as a note, at least kernels such as 4.14.whatever perform poorly= when >>>>> running ath10k on 9984 when acting as TCP endpoints. This makes them= not >>>>> really usable for stuff like serving video to lots of clients. >>>>> >>>>> Tweaking TCP (I do it a bit differently, but either way) can signific= antly >>>>> improve performance. >>>> >>>> Differently how? Did you have to do more than fiddle with the pacing_s= hift? >>> >>> This one, or a slightly tweaked version that applies to different kerne= ls: >>> >>> https://github.com/greearb/linux-ct-4.16/commit/3e14e8491a5b31ce994fb27= 52347145e6ab7eaf5 >>=20 >> Right; but the current mac80211 default (pacing shift 8) corresponds to >> setting your sysctl to 4... >>=20 >>>>> Recently I helped a user that could get barely 70 stations streaming >>>>> at 1Mbps on stock kernel (using one wave1 on 2.4, one wave-2 on 5Ghz), >>>>> and we got 110 working with a tweaked TCP stack. These were /n >>>>> stations too. >>>>> >>>>> I think it is lame that it _still_ requires out of tree patches to >>>>> make TCP work well on ath10k...even if you want to default to current >>>>> behaviour, you should allow users to tweak it to work with their use >>>>> case. >>>> >>>> Well if TCP is broken to the point of being unusable I do think we >>>> should fix it; but I think "just provide a configuration knob" should = be >>>> the last resort... >>> >>> So, it has been broken for years, and waiting for a perfect solution >>> has not gotten the problem fixed. >>=20 >> Well, the current default should at least be closer to something that >> works well. >>=20 >> I do think I may have erred on the wrong side of the optimum when I >> submitted the original patch to set the default to 8; that should >> probably have been 7 (i.e., 8 ms; the optimum in the evaluation we did >> was around 6 ms, which is sadly not a power of two). Maybe changing that >> default is actually better than having to redo the testing for all the >> different devices as we're discussing in the context of this patch. >> Maybe I should just send a patch to do that... > > It is hubris to think one setting works well for everyone. Sure, set a > good default, but also let people tune the value. Well I certainly won't object to a knob; I just don't think that most people are going to use it, so we better make the default reasonable. > And send the patches to stable so that users on older kernels can have > good performance. Sure, I can submit stable backports if needed :) -Toke