From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 525D126D4C3 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2026 14:05:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=140.211.166.183 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1785765943; cv=none; b=H2tjPlStoSinDasppEetiZVpzY6h4mCfzJVHsuhm/9bF19zeP1PaCxcItExmxCjDDQdySxl7xS1JTXKOqCaJRk0yWZFb7uPKM3KyjKMjUzP/W2nrE0tmjlBTu14BjtAM2nGJZ+s3m1Ww1eozVAtI1IxoKhzFww+7QmYNS8DMgGk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1785765943; c=relaxed/simple; bh=jEpwntmhkpUjUAAXzjMCIW+dQV/y+kMMpN2s+gHT/5I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QYPoavXas0LnCB2uWmhUkZ5muYRQkDwMOM6jgfwFK/Y5jV6LrfL1PB/QXLwhq191rb+hLl4RxVdkmtEn0g7P460Lu8d52dPF/aCUCUIxnIHk1k+F3TXxMeZvz945/SbOqAgPyU7WtJyU0BMSerujRz+QdlGSGanmSQA30McvvJ0= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gentoo.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gentoo.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=140.211.166.183 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gentoo.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gentoo.org Received: from mop.sam.mop (c.1.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.a.5.c.d.c.d.9.1.0.b.8.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa [IPv6:2001:8b0:19dc:dc5a::a1c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sam) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47780340D06; Mon, 03 Aug 2026 14:05:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Sam James To: Alejandro Colomar Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , Collin Funk , Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= , "Maciej W. Rozycki" , Paul Eggert , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, bug-gnulib@gnu.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org Subject: Re: the Linux man-pages as an educational tool In-Reply-To: Organization: Gentoo References: <87ik5sunm7.fsf@aarsen.me> <20260802231058.o7gud4bd7co2nbhv@illithid> <875x1sp0h2.fsf@gmail.com> <20260803020908.efqt5ilkcjq4z3yz@illithid> User-Agent: mu4e 1.14.2; emacs 31.0.91 Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2026 15:05:36 +0100 Message-ID: <878q6n9u4v.fsf@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alejandro Colomar writes: > Hi Branden, > >> Date: 2026-08-02 21:09:08-0500 >> From: "G. Branden Robinson" >> >> At 2026-08-03T01:42:57+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote: >> > > > > Date: 2026-08-02 16:27:21-0700 >> > > > > From: Collin Funk >> > > > > I can't help but wonder of what happens in WG 14 rejects this >> > > > > controversial, as obvious by this thread, change. Will the >> > > > > man-pages changes be reverted? >> > >=20 >> > > > > Or will we slowly watch them document personal >> > > > > preferences instead of existing standards? >> > >=20 >> > > BTW, as I showed in another subthread, strncpy(3) did contain >> > > opinionated comments well before I was involved. If you're really >> > > going to accuse me of that, better make sure you get the history >> > > right. >> >=20 >> > Oh, and while at it, please also read my review of glibc's own >> > opinionated and bogus documentation about string truncation. >>=20 >> I don't think this rhetorical tactic is a sound one. You are implying >> that because Collin (and perhaps others) are not on record as having >> already consistently opposed editorializing in the glibc manual, or in >> the Linux man-pages prior to your stewardship, that they are hypocrites. >>=20 >> First, that's not necessarily true. Who's read every word of either >> work? Who had already done so 5, 10, or 20 years ago? > > He doesn't need to have read every word of the glibc manual, but this > precise text he could have read it, because it was mentioned by Paul in > this thread (different subthread) prior (19:28 UTC) to his message, and > reviewed by me also prior (20:31 UTC) to his message (23:27 UTC). I often reply as I go rather than reading all other emails around that time. I don't think you should assume he read those emails and deliberately neglected their contents. > > Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2026 14:28:33 -0500 > From: Paul Eggert > Message-ID: <8715af47-867c-417a-8ef5-7b4b7ceb2c31@cs.ucla.edu> > > Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2026 22:31:59 +0200 > From: Alejandro Colomar > Message-ID: > > Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2026 16:27:21 -0700 > From: Collin Funk > Message-ID: <875x1sp0h2.fsf@gmail.com> > > Also relevant is the fact that he accused me of "slowly" documenting > "personal preferences". His wording implies that it wasn't there > before. Maybe I misunderstood, though. I'd be happy to rectify if I > was wrong. I think he meant in general? > > While he didn't need to know whether it was there before, it would be > good to make some effort to learn whether that was the case, before > making such a serious accusation. I took it to be that you (as you've said yourself) have a different style from Michael and this does involve a more opinionated (you may not call it that) approach. He's commenting on that being unfavourable to him. I didn't think that was contentious, more that you see it as your duty wrt education. > > ... > sam --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEBBAEWCgCpFiEEJaa7iN2bdkxrVUHCc4QJ9SDfkZAFAmpwoDEbFIAAAAAABAAO bWFudTIsMi41KzEuMTIsMiwyXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25z Lm9wZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQyNUE2QkI4OEREOUI3NjRDNkI1NTQx QzI3Mzg0MDlGNTIwREY5MTkwDxxzYW1AZ2VudG9vLm9yZwAKCRBzhAn1IN+RkPAx AP0cuunv7zpgyGlXPXinG+wYZ50RYb4sKnpsa9LodnPt2gEAkBYQhzyQM5mGCR3f G3j5Hz/g+l9RB7dsz8F/KtlX+QY= =Q9Ev -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--