From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7252C37E302 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 21:59:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=140.211.166.183 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1785535196; cv=none; b=otxdZ6Qvob3303M5R9dnAZazZG5U3nI2/hiGvpwmeKoqk+qWFEACf7MiRIR+/ebjNEkOpxTuu95j4q2zhO24e9DzcvMMmfeQqJPxiFci1TAkOzVEMVMMz5mwDnzbrZTYC5dwSnQWlFt/xO4C28paZGFBAxA+hnqrvgx3svZeAQU= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1785535196; c=relaxed/simple; bh=elEQD5gUO4h5XFMMdYdws62bO85Suyr3RnBhe+EHQCE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=RqoM8zHw4fhgbRCPxaxxz6dDQnglogigdj7GcP418Mb5JnRalMulC0metQ/wIEPLslwyv+sb3F/oOqSONzUXGsFQ0diLdFM/1sYy+db2dSh/OQ525f9XtZLPgs3LZZ01EA8mrr3V0dA0buWnL+RaOwZneJxLfP2mOBB123/A0v4= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gentoo.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gentoo.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=140.211.166.183 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gentoo.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gentoo.org Received: from mop.sam.mop (c.1.a.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.a.5.c.d.c.d.9.1.0.b.8.0.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa [IPv6:2001:8b0:19dc:dc5a::a1c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: sam) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B0573410D1; Fri, 31 Jul 2026 21:59:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Sam James To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: Joseph Myers , Alejandro Colomar , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, Keith Bostic , Mark Harris , Nevin Liber , JeanHeyd Meneide , Christopher Bazley , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Iker Pedrosa , "Evgeny Grin (Karlson2k)" , Kees Cook , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org Subject: Re: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform In-Reply-To: <20260731215122.4p4aepsbgeoibx74@illithid> Organization: Gentoo References: <784288e704183a4297aeaa3d13af8edab18bc1ea.1785532392.git.alx@kernel.org> <20260731215122.4p4aepsbgeoibx74@illithid> User-Agent: mu4e 1.14.2; emacs 31.0.91 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2026 22:59:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87a4r6es6k.fsf@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain "G. Branden Robinson" writes: > Hi Joseph, > > At 2026-07-31T21:23:35+0000, Joseph Myers wrote: >> I think it's irresponsible to use the man-pages project to promote >> personal idiosyncratic ideas like this in preference to what's been >> the standard location of functions since 1989. > > I'm sure I don't need to bring to your attention what a mine field > string/`char` sequence/memory buffer handling has been in C since the > language's inception. > > More to the point: what's a better forum for pursuing this attempt at > reform that will both (a) reach a significant population of stakeholders > who can variously red-team it and/or endorse it; and (b) has sufficient > visibility that it can't easily be ignored by people who oppose reform > in this area for whatever reason? > I think the man page already tries to discourage use in its CAVEATS section. > I hope you do not wish to imply that a closed session of some committee, > or unofficial backroom politicking would be preferable, nor that WG14 > should close its doors to members of its user community who have not > been vetted for a disinclination to boat-rocking. I am confused as to where that implication could have possibly come from. Joseph is opposing the change in the form of a patch that is likely to be applied (*) to man-pages.git which has the effect of advocacy. I don't think it has anything to do with WG14 membership or anything of the like? What am I missing? (*) Alex has a history of making opinonated changes like this to man-pages, such as removing references to older standards, and using a somewhat novel (to many) syntax for prototypes. > > Regards, > Branden sam --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEBBAEWCgCpFiEEJaa7iN2bdkxrVUHCc4QJ9SDfkZAFAmptGtMbFIAAAAAABAAO bWFudTIsMi41KzEuMTIsMiwyXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25z Lm9wZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQyNUE2QkI4OEREOUI3NjRDNkI1NTQx QzI3Mzg0MDlGNTIwREY5MTkwDxxzYW1AZ2VudG9vLm9yZwAKCRBzhAn1IN+RkD07 AQCPu2KyweNvB+HqJGhVEki1SMXxWftWMjS82beHrlGqZwD9GR5gzPmdJZO18vOC Y8Y8SrTLXB0NCEAYmnUvNpDWago= =pTV1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--