From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S263448AbUHUMMU (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:12:20 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S263795AbUHUMMU (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:12:20 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:21480 "EHLO mail-out.m-online.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S263448AbUHUMMQ convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:12:16 -0400 To: =?iso-8859-2?q?Tomasz_K=B3oczko?= Cc: Julien Oster , Miles Lane , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Bryan Cantrill Subject: Re: DTrace-like analysis possible with future Linux kernels? References: <200408191822.48297.miles.lane@comcast.net> <87hdqyogp4.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org> From: Julien Oster Organization: FRODOID.ORG Mail-Followup-To: =?iso-8859-2?q?Tomasz_K=B3oczko?= , Julien Oster , Miles Lane , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Bryan Cantrill Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 14:12:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Tomasz =?iso-8859-2?q?K=B3oczko's?= message of "Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:03:10 +0200 (CEST)") Message-ID: <87d61k4rmr.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Tomasz Kłoczko writes: Hello Tomasz, > Probably you did try use DTrace even less than 5 minutes :-> No, I didn't. I clearly referred to that article, not to dtrace itself. > PS. Very interesting commens about this thread is on Bryan Cantrill > (DTrace developer) blog: > http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmc/20040820#dtrace_on_lkml > Bryan blog is also yet another Dtrace knowledge source .. Oh, yeah, great. A whole blog entry dedicated to me. Now I am a moron, absolutely clueless and I am "looking to confirm preconceived notions rather than understand new technology". Sorry, but that goes a little too far. No, I didn't try out dtrace and, right after reading the article (and that's the important thing!) I didn't seek for further information about it, I'm not a Solaris System Administrator right now (I was, some years ago). And all I was saying is that this *article* was just ridiculous. Please read this paragraph of my response to it again: | Maybe, without that article, I would recognize it as a fine thing | (and by "fine" I don't mean "the best thing since sliced bread"), | but that piece of text was just too ridiculous to take anything | serious. That should make it obvious, shouldn't it? I would have written the same thing If I read a similar article about, for example, vmware, UML or valgrind - and I really think those are really great inventions. But in that article, I was just missing the objectiveness. A quick note about the fact that Sun's been introducing dtrace for Solaris 10 and what it is, what it does, would have been much better instead of talking about a "Cantrill explosion", how "DTrace has completely changed the way I do business" (actual quotes). Florian and Alan told me in a quick and objective manner why dtrace is a good thing, and I am glad for that information. I never stated that DTrace was a bad thing. I repeat it again - if I had any use for it, and I maybe have in future - it looks like I would consider DTrace a very nice thing to have. From the (non-insulting) replys I got, I understood that DTrace actually is one. Bryan Cantrill, I can understand that you have to defend DTrace. But please, PLEASE stop saying that I am a clueless moron if I wasn't even ranting about you, ranting about DTrace, but just about *that single article* and it's presentation of DTrace to me. And then all those comments about Linux users and developers being very defensive about DTrace... heck, can't I even critisize the quality of an ARTICLE without being accused of being a Linux maniac which fights against Solaris? I am using Solaris myself. Some years ago, I was a System Administrator for - guess what - Solaris machines. The last thing I want to step into is a religious war between Solaris and Linux. Does that mean I am not allowed to express my opinion about the public press anymore? I read about dtrace now, I think it's a good invention. If at any place at any time we two would meet I maybe would say to you "Bryan, I like DTrace very much". If I was to administer Solaris systems right now, I would probably even say: "Bryan, DTrace has helped me a lot". But I would STILL say that that article was CRAP, because that is just what that article is from my point of view. Now, I really don't know how to make this any more clear. Julien