From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [170.10.129.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED1072AEE1 for ; Tue, 13 May 2025 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=170.10.129.124 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1747124350; cv=none; b=lCFrFxxszjgBec6O2r2xjgGZ/wP/Wc584fOsuLgrZmpprWMocDPqKGVGOCowLgqqnVBDK6QVs1ibrA1SFCdvxkxskWtOo0NfvsowS8TVyMwSx+0/G5htzpsbqW7J90fseqCDgqVMDYlasSji95gV0an3tFlEdgCRKwLE8RXClUQ= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1747124350; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Su6QEfqVQhlYWCGByUc3CjzhnmYrhcigEMloWS5yMs8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Q78KMXdeJW27kS1zSPNshEgD1WxGXt/iY9iN6kvyIU0c1po0Q2kHmYAK5GuniYsAF+5apeT3E6nPzVkKOmrziZqY0pJ7nBB20lZyy/urlmdKmWM8FfNSW2BM3hQvqihU75rVJYEXx59u395y7bIGKBEVtD4O8HHyb16/+76yJK8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=redhat.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=redhat.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b=TYXETnoj; arc=none smtp.client-ip=170.10.129.124 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=redhat.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="TYXETnoj" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1747124347; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=cvwaWtricW1FLg5RbIrhWuiuXIjHoaZjwfgC/DtHd8o=; b=TYXETnojCn4XxORgq9eWplenz47EHTj7jomjEDj49lJ8Mu69ZaZFjxPmXIjnKosJWovvhg pu+/4EC2fsp/MGNpPgKIH9VgYW0NqrvJezU6c+dn+X12X02Q1vyIFk05256a7+SD9EfY6M Z4MWz3QRvOat/c8EO/RoxVRzyVsVoh4= Received: from mx-prod-mc-01.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (ec2-54-186-198-63.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com [54.186.198.63]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-113-8v6VDVqdObG3jXi-EDCLSg-1; Tue, 13 May 2025 04:19:02 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 8v6VDVqdObG3jXi-EDCLSg-1 X-Mimecast-MFC-AGG-ID: 8v6VDVqdObG3jXi-EDCLSg_1747124340 Received: from mx-prod-int-03.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (mx-prod-int-03.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com [10.30.177.12]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx-prod-mc-01.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29F15195396A; Tue, 13 May 2025 08:18:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from blackfin.pond.sub.org (unknown [10.45.242.27]) by mx-prod-int-03.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D641C19560BC; Tue, 13 May 2025 08:18:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by blackfin.pond.sub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 50D3521E66C2; Tue, 13 May 2025 10:18:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Markus Armbruster To: Mark Cave-Ayland Cc: Daniel P. =?utf-8?Q?Berrang=C3=A9?= , Peter Maydell , Thomas Huth , Zhao Liu , Xiaoyao Li , Philippe =?utf-8?Q?Mathieu-Daud=C3=A9?= , Paolo Bonzini , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Richard Henderson , kvm@vger.kernel.org, Gerd Hoffmann , Laurent Vivier , Jiaxun Yang , Yi Liu , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Eduardo Habkost , Marcel Apfelbaum , Alistair Francis , Daniel Henrique Barboza , Marcelo Tosatti , qemu-riscv@nongnu.org, Weiwei Li , Amit Shah , Yanan Wang , Helge Deller , Palmer Dabbelt , Ani Sinha , Igor Mammedov , Fabiano Rosas , Liu Zhiwei , =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Mathieu--Drif , qemu-arm@nongnu.org, =?utf-8?Q?Marc-Andr=C3=A9?= Lureau , Huacai Chen , Jason Wang Subject: Re: How to mark internal properties In-Reply-To: (Mark Cave-Ayland's message of "Mon, 12 May 2025 15:48:34 +0100") References: <20250508133550.81391-1-philmd@linaro.org> <20250508133550.81391-13-philmd@linaro.org> <23260c74-01ba-45bc-bf2f-b3e19c28ec8a@intel.com> <2f526570-7ab0-479c-967c-b3f95f9f19e3@redhat.com> <87jz6mqeu5.fsf@pond.sub.org> Date: Tue, 13 May 2025 10:18:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87ecwshqj4.fsf@pond.sub.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.0 on 10.30.177.12 Mark Cave-Ayland writes: > On a related note this also brings us back to the discussion as to the relationship between qdev and QOM: at one point I was under the impression that qdev properties were simply QOM properties that were exposed externally, i.e on the commmand line for use with -device. > > Can you provide an update on what the current thinking is in this area, in particular re: scoping of qdev vs QOM properties? qdev is a leaky layer above QOM. qdev properties are also QOM properties. All device properties are exposed externally. We use device properties for: * Letting users configure pluggable devices, with -device or device_add * Letting code configure onboard devices For onboard devices that are also pluggable, everything exposed to code is also exposed externally. This might be a mistake in places. * Letting the machine versioning machinery adjust device configuration Some properties are meant to be used just for this. They're exposed externally regardless, which is a mistake.