From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from phobos.denx.de (phobos.denx.de [85.214.62.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 504E7C7115C for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:08:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from h2850616.stratoserver.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by phobos.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B4282B18; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 09:08:20 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=kernel.org Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="QuAAeIDo"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by phobos.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 109) id 2F3C082BF6; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 09:08:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nyc.source.kernel.org (nyc.source.kernel.org [IPv6:2604:1380:45d1:ec00::3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by phobos.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9180A82B0F for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 09:08:15 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dmarc=pass (p=quarantine dis=none) header.from=kernel.org Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mkorpershoek@kernel.org Received: from smtp.kernel.org (transwarp.subspace.kernel.org [100.75.92.58]) by nyc.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9780DA523A4; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:08:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4486C4CEED; Wed, 18 Jun 2025 07:08:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1750230494; bh=QaddolRz2bvyebeiAwBoqVaHI/C+6/lsoBm+md8rW9s=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=QuAAeIDoyzVZWOapVSJDLI/oFQh7CEQLnzWg9Hl36fxHMfUodwhYzFDB7dd0Y97m4 iFQ4mSMvFDLGu4aJqwfHmn/J5DJjMtvhbAdY+reR+bagVHpxUxo2lUeqUbH4SqCmoD IRzZkIU9RwyaqWdxRZ0EmkKLgJy3MXwSJSYRfE6LBCu8F9Z9NrzXGKrA5wHopodCYB VXIZ1QCALM3lIB3bG/S/xpB5rFPx7Yh23QOAlw15LpixlFI8Xshv9KtMdGhXRuG3D3 fxXoVXwllcD+G445jDQYdTxVSUIMLjMgZLZppZEKRSnVFnpO3zdDgE0BIv/+GBe4XJ hWwbVzORc9cjw== From: Mattijs Korpershoek To: Tom Rini , u-boot@lists.denx.de Subject: Re: [RFH] Future direction of the U-Boot project In-Reply-To: <20250602222738.GC100073@bill-the-cat> References: <20250602222738.GC100073@bill-the-cat> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2025 09:08:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87msa5ttlw.fsf@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: u-boot@lists.denx.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: U-Boot discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Sender: "U-Boot" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.8 at phobos.denx.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Hi Tom, On Mon, Jun 02, 2025 at 16:27, Tom Rini wrote: > Hey all, > > Something I've talked about in release emails earlier this year, and > promised a follow-up on but hadn't gotten to yet, was how to manage the > project moving forward. The email I made last week about Simon also I > believe highlighted some of the problems that we as a project and > community face. > > As a starting point, I want to thank all of the people (and companies) > that have been working on the project and doing the less visible but > important and expensive things that need doing. DENX has been running > much of the project infrastructure since inception. Currently, all of > the fast AMD64 build machines are from Simon. Linaro has been providing > two of the 3 fast ARM64 build machines (the other is from Simon). Our > patchwork project is on OzLabs group. A number of years ago, Simon > picked up the u-boot.org domain. There's likely other things I'm > unintentionally forgetting here. > > So, what are the problems I see and would like to get some help and > guidance in working on resolving? Well, in a lot of ways it all stems > from one root cause. The project was founded on the "BDFL" model, > which was quite common at the time, and a relatively reasonable option > too. > > But now? It makes getting resources harder. There are a number of people > working in the background now trying to get things donated to the > project (thank you, again) but I also know historically it's been a > challenge not having some distinct entity for U-Boot. Individual > contributions are best done as "I have a server" or similar. Conferences > are a strictly individual thing. > > Then there's the day to day parts of the project. I feel like I > shouldn't complain about taking vacations where I just handle pull > requests and not patchwork stuff too, or only doing a few things on the > weekend. But it also means there's no real way to handle contentious > issues other than what I say goes. Which isn't ideal. > > What to do about it? Well, I've talked with the Software Freedom > Conservancy (https://sfconservancy.org/) (SFC) earlier in the year (and > before that, years ago at conferences). There are number of open source > and community focused projects that they provide a legal entity for and > help with administrative things. I've personally been a fan of what they > do, and donated yearly for a long time. I think they would be a good fit > for the project because they do this kind of work for a number of other > big and important and community centric projects. I would encourage > anyone interested to look at their website and look around. > > But that is something like step two or step three. The first step is > that I'm hoping some members of the community would like to formalize > helping with the project. SFC can help us with creating some > organizational structure for the project itself, but we need a few > people to do it. And before we even get that far, help with the mailing > list moderation queue and triaging patchwork assignments would be great. I'm happy to help with the mailing list moderation queue. I'm in Europe timezone. I will be away for 2 months (August-Sept). Please reach out to me if you think I can help. > > Thanks for reading this, I look forward to finding a sustainable path > forward for the project and the community at large. > > -- > Tom