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Wed, 28 Feb 2024 23:58:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <889b132b-b92e-465b-94af-4e4133e4c297@suse.com> Date: Thu, 29 Feb 2024 08:58:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 23/23] xen/README: add compiler and binutils versions for RISC-V64 Content-Language: en-US To: Julien Grall Cc: Andrew Cooper , George Dunlap , Stefano Stabellini , Wei Liu , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, Oleksii Kurochko References: <73a38d85-0798-4cfa-8625-0f8c9e05b2a3@suse.com> <80fb8091-9a26-40a4-b2e7-371df9411861@xen.org> From: Jan Beulich Autocrypt: addr=jbeulich@suse.com; keydata= xsDiBFk3nEQRBADAEaSw6zC/EJkiwGPXbWtPxl2xCdSoeepS07jW8UgcHNurfHvUzogEq5xk hu507c3BarVjyWCJOylMNR98Yd8VqD9UfmX0Hb8/BrA+Hl6/DB/eqGptrf4BSRwcZQM32aZK 7Pj2XbGWIUrZrd70x1eAP9QE3P79Y2oLrsCgbZJfEwCgvz9JjGmQqQkRiTVzlZVCJYcyGGsD /0tbFCzD2h20ahe8rC1gbb3K3qk+LpBtvjBu1RY9drYk0NymiGbJWZgab6t1jM7sk2vuf0Py O9Hf9XBmK0uE9IgMaiCpc32XV9oASz6UJebwkX+zF2jG5I1BfnO9g7KlotcA/v5ClMjgo6Gl MDY4HxoSRu3i1cqqSDtVlt+AOVBJBACrZcnHAUSuCXBPy0jOlBhxPqRWv6ND4c9PH1xjQ3NP nxJuMBS8rnNg22uyfAgmBKNLpLgAGVRMZGaGoJObGf72s6TeIqKJo/LtggAS9qAUiuKVnygo 3wjfkS9A3DRO+SpU7JqWdsveeIQyeyEJ/8PTowmSQLakF+3fote9ybzd880fSmFuIEJldWxp Y2ggPGpiZXVsaWNoQHN1c2UuY29tPsJgBBMRAgAgBQJZN5xEAhsDBgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQoDSui/t3IH4J+wCfQ5jHdEjCRHj23O/5ttg9r9OIruwAn3103WUITZee e7Sbg12UgcQ5lv7SzsFNBFk3nEQQCACCuTjCjFOUdi5Nm244F+78kLghRcin/awv+IrTcIWF hUpSs1Y91iQQ7KItirz5uwCPlwejSJDQJLIS+QtJHaXDXeV6NI0Uef1hP20+y8qydDiVkv6l IreXjTb7DvksRgJNvCkWtYnlS3mYvQ9NzS9PhyALWbXnH6sIJd2O9lKS1Mrfq+y0IXCP10eS FFGg+Av3IQeFatkJAyju0PPthyTqxSI4lZYuJVPknzgaeuJv/2NccrPvmeDg6Coe7ZIeQ8Yj t0ARxu2xytAkkLCel1Lz1WLmwLstV30g80nkgZf/wr+/BXJW/oIvRlonUkxv+IbBM3dX2OV8 AmRv1ySWPTP7AAMFB/9PQK/VtlNUJvg8GXj9ootzrteGfVZVVT4XBJkfwBcpC/XcPzldjv+3 HYudvpdNK3lLujXeA5fLOH+Z/G9WBc5pFVSMocI71I8bT8lIAzreg0WvkWg5V2WZsUMlnDL9 mpwIGFhlbM3gfDMs7MPMu8YQRFVdUvtSpaAs8OFfGQ0ia3LGZcjA6Ik2+xcqscEJzNH+qh8V m5jjp28yZgaqTaRbg3M/+MTbMpicpZuqF4rnB0AQD12/3BNWDR6bmh+EkYSMcEIpQmBM51qM EKYTQGybRCjpnKHGOxG0rfFY1085mBDZCH5Kx0cl0HVJuQKC+dV2ZY5AqjcKwAxpE75MLFkr wkkEGBECAAkFAlk3nEQCGwwACgkQoDSui/t3IH7nnwCfcJWUDUFKdCsBH/E5d+0ZnMQi+G0A nAuWpQkjM1ASeQwSHEeAWPgskBQL In-Reply-To: <80fb8091-9a26-40a4-b2e7-371df9411861@xen.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 28.02.2024 23:58, Julien Grall wrote: > On 27/02/2024 07:55, Jan Beulich wrote: >> On 26.02.2024 18:39, Oleksii Kurochko wrote: >>> This patch doesn't represent a strict lower bound for GCC and >>> GNU Binutils; rather, these versions are specifically employed by >>> the Xen RISC-V container and are anticipated to undergo continuous >>> testing. >> >> Up and until that container would be updated to a newer gcc. I'm >> afraid I view this as too weak a criteria, > > I disagree. We have to decide a limit at some point. It is sensible to > say that we are only supporting what we can tests. AFAIK, this is what > QEMU has been doing. I view qemu as a particularly bad example. They raise their baselines far too aggressively for my taste. >> IOW it is hard for me to see why RISC-V needs stronger restrictions here >> than other architectures. It ought to be possible to determine a baseline >> version. Even if taking the desire to have "pause" available as a >> requirement, gas (and presumably gld) 2.36.1 would already suffice. > > I think we want to bump it on Arm. There are zero reasons to try to keep > a lower versions if nobody tests/use it in production. > > I would suggest to do the same on x86. What's the point of try to > support Xen with a 15+ years old compiler? It could have long been bumped if only a proper scheme to follow for this and future bumping would have been put forward by anyone keen on such bumping, like - see his reply - e.g. Andrew. You may recall that this was discussed more than once on meetings, with no real outcome. I'm personally not meaning to stand in the way of such bumping as long as it's done in a predictable manner, but I'm not keen on doing so and hence I don't view it as my obligation to try to invent a reasonable scheme. (My personal view is that basic functionality should be possible to have virtually everywhere, whereas for advanced stuff it is fine to require a more modern tool chain.) The one additional concern I've raised in the past is that in the end it's not just minimal tool chain versions we rely on, but also other core system tools (see the recent move from "which" to "command -v" for an example of such a dependency, where luckily it turned out to not be an issue that the -v had only become a standard thing at some point). While for the tool chain I can arrange for making newer versions available, for core system tools I can't. Therefore being too eager there would mean I can't really / easily (smoke) test Xen anymore on ancient hardware every once in a while. When afaict we do too little of such testing already anyway, despite not having any lower bound on hardware that formally we support running Xen on. (And no, upgrading the ancient distros on that ancient hardware is not an option for me.) Jan