From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1OqQN6-0000aM-HM for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:55:28 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34793 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OqQMz-0000aC-Np for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:55:26 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OqQMu-0001bM-M5 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:55:21 -0400 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]:47492 helo=mail.gmx.net) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OqQMt-0001ah-UZ for grub-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:55:16 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 31 Aug 2010 12:55:13 -0000 Received: from 165.126.46.212.adsl.ncore.de (HELO 192.168.2.69) [212.46.126.165] by mail.gmx.net (mp042) with SMTP; 31 Aug 2010 14:55:13 +0200 X-Authenticated: #2145628 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+lJdocBBil6ds46ckwILCOVrEBXcduIoFjHaPD6D eK9lVqxT/gycTt Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:54:58 +0200 From: "Thomas Schmitt" To: grub-devel@gnu.org References: <20100831105840.GW21862@riva.ucam.org> In-Reply-To: <20100831105840.GW21862@riva.ucam.org> Message-Id: <95379881410026@192.168.2.69> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. Subject: Re: [RFC] Detect other software using embedding area X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GNU GRUB List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:55:27 -0000 Hi, Colin Watson wrote: > [...] "embedding area" [...] > (setup): When embedding the core image in a post-MBR gap, [...] Aka "hidden blocks" ? > several people followed up to say that GRUB shouldn't be > using the embedding area because it was never defined to be used for > anything in particular and has no protocol for arbitrating among > conflicts like this. A valid point. All participants invite trouble. > but grub-devel is not a filesystem > development list and there's only so much we can fix). Maybe one should use external boot media of which GRUB can claim complete ownership. I.e. an USB stick or a CD which hosts GRUB and a custom configuration. This way, GRUB would have no shares in the embattled area at all. Main development task would be to allow easy creation and manipulation of the boot media. As frontend of grub-mkrescue ? Would ISO 9660 multi-session be suitable for changing GRUB configuration on CD ? A new session would be added with a new set of volume descriptors (superblock) and a new directory tree. Plus new or changed files. Does GRUB know it has to "mount" the first track of the last session on CD/DVD/BD media ? (I assume it knows when it deals with MMC media.) > We won't do ourselves > any favours by appearing to be a poor citizen. How about GRUB offers to become the umpire of the playfield ? I.e. to have on the external media: - GRUB - copies of the MBR and embedded area of each involved operating system - a feature which puts one of those copies onto hard disk according to menu choice of the user and then boots the copied MBR. - a feature which copies found MBR and embedded area onto external media or remote systems. I am not educated enough to know whether GRUB already allows to copy data from its boot media to disks. Actually i have a gzpLinux CD with custom SSH setup which allows me to boot my test machine and to restore backups of MBR + "embedded area" remotely from my workstation. This allowed me to switch between GRUB and boot loaders of FreeBSD and OpenSolaris before i found out how to make GRUB boot those other systems. (My GRUB is hosted by a Debian system.) To have a complete GNU/Linux as umpire is appealing to me. So eventually GRUB development should consider to adopt an existing rescue system for that purpose. This system could then update its own GRUB configuration. (It would be interesting to make it add a new session to its own boot CD :)). Have a nice day :) Thomas