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Tue, 03 Jun 2025 04:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:8308:a00c:e200:37e0:4ec0:b6ec:ef2a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3a4f0097210sm17962177f8f.73.2025.06.03.04.40.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 03 Jun 2025 04:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2025 13:40:30 +0200 Message-Id: From: =?utf-8?q?Radim_Kr=C4=8Dm=C3=A1=C5=99?= Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 9/9] RISC-V: KVM: Upgrade the supported SBI version to 3.0 Cc: "Anup Patel" , "Will Deacon" , "Mark Rutland" , "Paul Walmsley" , "Palmer Dabbelt" , "Mayuresh Chitale" , , , , , , "linux-riscv" To: "Atish Patra" , "Andrew Jones" References: <20250522-pmu_event_info-v3-0-f7bba7fd9cfe@rivosinc.com> <20250522-pmu_event_info-v3-9-f7bba7fd9cfe@rivosinc.com> <61627296-6f94-45ea-9410-ed0ea2251870@linux.dev> <20250526-224478e15ee50987124a47ac@orel> <20250528-ff9f6120de39c3e4eefc5365@orel> <1169138f-8445-4522-94dd-ad008524c600@linux.dev> <2bac252c-883c-4f8a-9ae1-283660991520@linux.dev> <0dcd01cd-419f-4225-b22c-cbaf82718235@linux.dev> In-Reply-To: <0dcd01cd-419f-4225-b22c-cbaf82718235@linux.dev> 2025-05-30T12:29:30-07:00, Atish Patra : > On 5/30/25 4:09 AM, Radim Kr=C4=8Dm=C3=A1=C5=99 wrote: >> 2025-05-29T11:44:38-07:00, Atish Patra : >>> On 5/29/25 3:24 AM, Radim Kr=C4=8Dm=C3=A1=C5=99 wrote: >>>> I originally gave up on the idea, but I feel kinda bad for Drew now, s= o >>>> trying again: >>> I am sorry if some of my replies came across in the wrong way. That was >>> never >>> the intention. >> I didn't mean to accuse you, my apologies. I agree with Drew's >> positions, so to expand on a question that wasn't touched in his mail: >> >>>> Even if userspace wants SBI for the M-mode interface, security minded >>> This is probably a 3rd one ? Why we want M-mode interface in the user >>> space ? >> It is about turning KVM into an ISA accelerator. >> >> A guest thinks it is running in S/HS-mode. >> The ecall instruction traps to M-mode. RISC-V H extension doesn't >> accelerate M-mode, so we have to emulate the trap in software. > We don't need to accelerate M-mode. That's the beauty of the RISC-V H=20 > extension. (It is a gap to me. :]) > The ISA is designed in such a way that the SBI is the interface between= =20 > the supervisor environment (VS/HS) > and the supervisor execution environment (HS/M). The ISA says nothing about the implementation of said interface. Returning 42 in x21 as a response to an ecall with 0x10 in a7 and 0x3 in a6 is perfectly valid RISC-V implementation that KVM currently cannot virtualize. >> The ISA doesn't say that M-mode means SBI. We try really hard to have >> SBI on all RISC-V, but I think KVM is taking it a bit too far. >> >> We can discuss how best to describe SBI, so userspace can choose to >> accelerate the M-mode in KVM, but I think that the ability to emulate >> M-mode in userspace should be provided. > I am still trying to understand the advantages of emulating the M-mode=20 > in the user space. > Can you please elaborate ? This thread already has a lot of them, so to avoid repeating them, I have to go into quite niche use-cases: When developing M-mode software on RISC-V (when RISC-V has more useful implementations than QEMU), a developer might want to accelerate the S/U-modes in KVM. It is also simpler to implement an old SBI interface (especially with bugs/quirks) if virtualization just executes the old M-mode binary. Why must KVM prevent userspace from virtualizing RISC-V? > I am assuming you are not hinting Nested virtualization which can be=20 > achieved with existing > ISA provided mechanisms and accelerated by SBI NACL. Right, I am talking about virtualization of RISC-V, because I don't have a crystal ball to figure out what users will want. 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org MjAyNS0wNS0zMFQxMjoyOTozMC0wNzowMCwgQXRpc2ggUGF0cmEgPGF0aXNoLnBhdHJhQGxpbnV4 LmRldj46Cj4gT24gNS8zMC8yNSA0OjA5IEFNLCBSYWRpbSBLcsSNbcOhxZkgd3JvdGU6Cj4+IDIw MjUtMDUtMjlUMTE6NDQ6MzgtMDc6MDAsIEF0aXNoIFBhdHJhIDxhdGlzaC5wYXRyYUBsaW51eC5k ZXY+Ogo+Pj4gT24gNS8yOS8yNSAzOjI0IEFNLCBSYWRpbSBLcsSNbcOhxZkgd3JvdGU6Cj4+Pj4g SSBvcmlnaW5hbGx5IGdhdmUgdXAgb24gdGhlIGlkZWEsIGJ1dCBJIGZlZWwga2luZGEgYmFkIGZv ciBEcmV3IG5vdywgc28KPj4+PiB0cnlpbmcgYWdhaW46Cj4+PiBJIGFtIHNvcnJ5IGlmIHNvbWUg b2YgbXkgcmVwbGllcyBjYW1lIGFjcm9zcyBpbiB0aGUgd3Jvbmcgd2F5LiBUaGF0IHdhcwo+Pj4g bmV2ZXIKPj4+IHRoZSBpbnRlbnRpb24uCj4+IEkgZGlkbid0IG1lYW4gdG8gYWNjdXNlIHlvdSwg bXkgYXBvbG9naWVzLiAgSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIERyZXcncwo+PiBwb3NpdGlvbnMsIHNvIHRvIGV4 cGFuZCBvbiBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uIHRoYXQgd2Fzbid0IHRvdWNoZWQgaW4gaGlzIG1haWw6Cj4+Cj4+ Pj4gRXZlbiBpZiB1c2Vyc3BhY2Ugd2FudHMgU0JJIGZvciB0aGUgTS1tb2RlIGludGVyZmFjZSwg c2VjdXJpdHkgbWluZGVkCj4+PiBUaGlzIGlzIHByb2JhYmx5IGEgM3JkIG9uZSA/IFdoeSB3ZSB3 YW50IE0tbW9kZSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgaW4gdGhlIHVzZXIKPj4+IHNwYWNlID8KPj4gSXQgaXMgYWJv dXQgdHVybmluZyBLVk0gaW50byBhbiBJU0EgYWNjZWxlcmF0b3IuCj4+Cj4+IEEgZ3Vlc3QgdGhp bmtzIGl0IGlzIHJ1bm5pbmcgaW4gUy9IUy1tb2RlLgo+PiBUaGUgZWNhbGwgaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb24g dHJhcHMgdG8gTS1tb2RlLiAgUklTQy1WIEggZXh0ZW5zaW9uIGRvZXNuJ3QKPj4gYWNjZWxlcmF0 ZSBNLW1vZGUsIHNvIHdlIGhhdmUgdG8gZW11bGF0ZSB0aGUgdHJhcCBpbiBzb2Z0d2FyZS4KPiBX ZSBkb24ndCBuZWVkIHRvIGFjY2VsZXJhdGUgTS1tb2RlLiBUaGF0J3MgdGhlIGJlYXV0eSBvZiB0 aGUgUklTQy1WIEggCj4gZXh0ZW5zaW9uLgoKKEl0IGlzIGEgZ2FwIHRvIG1lLiA6XSkKCj4gVGhl IElTQSBpcyBkZXNpZ25lZCBpbiBzdWNoIGEgd2F5IHRoYXQgdGhlIFNCSSBpcyB0aGUgaW50ZXJm YWNlIGJldHdlZW4gCj4gdGhlIHN1cGVydmlzb3IgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgKFZTL0hTKQo+IGFuZCB0 aGUgc3VwZXJ2aXNvciBleGVjdXRpb24gZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgKEhTL00pLgoKVGhlIElTQSBzYXlz IG5vdGhpbmcgYWJvdXQgdGhlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIG9mIHNhaWQgaW50ZXJmYWNlLgoKUmV0 dXJuaW5nIDQyIGluIHgyMSBhcyBhIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIGFuIGVjYWxsIHdpdGggMHgxMCBpbiBh NyBhbmQgMHgzIGluCmE2IGlzIHBlcmZlY3RseSB2YWxpZCBSSVNDLVYgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24g dGhhdCBLVk0gY3VycmVudGx5IGNhbm5vdAp2aXJ0dWFsaXplLgoKPj4gVGhlIElTQSBkb2Vzbid0 IHNheSB0aGF0IE0tbW9kZSBtZWFucyBTQkkuICBXZSB0cnkgcmVhbGx5IGhhcmQgdG8gaGF2ZQo+ PiBTQkkgb24gYWxsIFJJU0MtViwgYnV0IEkgdGhpbmsgS1ZNIGlzIHRha2luZyBpdCBhIGJpdCB0 b28gZmFyLgo+Pgo+PiBXZSBjYW4gZGlzY3VzcyBob3cgYmVzdCB0byBkZXNjcmliZSBTQkksIHNv IHVzZXJzcGFjZSBjYW4gY2hvb3NlIHRvCj4+IGFjY2VsZXJhdGUgdGhlIE0tbW9kZSBpbiBLVk0s IGJ1dCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlIGFiaWxpdHkgdG8gZW11bGF0ZQo+PiBNLW1vZGUgaW4gdXNl cnNwYWNlIHNob3VsZCBiZSBwcm92aWRlZC4KPiBJIGFtIHN0aWxsIHRyeWluZyB0byB1bmRlcnN0 YW5kIHRoZSBhZHZhbnRhZ2VzIG9mIGVtdWxhdGluZyB0aGUgTS1tb2RlIAo+IGluIHRoZSB1c2Vy IHNwYWNlLgo+IENhbiB5b3UgcGxlYXNlIGVsYWJvcmF0ZSA/CgpUaGlzIHRocmVhZCBhbHJlYWR5 IGhhcyBhIGxvdCBvZiB0aGVtLCBzbyB0byBhdm9pZCByZXBlYXRpbmcgdGhlbSwgSQpoYXZlIHRv IGdvIGludG8gcXVpdGUgbmljaGUgdXNlLWNhc2VzOgpXaGVuIGRldmVsb3BpbmcgTS1tb2RlIHNv ZnR3YXJlIG9uIFJJU0MtViAod2hlbiBSSVNDLVYgaGFzIG1vcmUgdXNlZnVsCmltcGxlbWVudGF0 aW9ucyB0aGFuIFFFTVUpLCBhIGRldmVsb3BlciBtaWdodCB3YW50IHRvIGFjY2VsZXJhdGUgdGhl ClMvVS1tb2RlcyBpbiBLVk0uCkl0IGlzIGFsc28gc2ltcGxlciB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQgYW4gb2xk IFNCSSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgKGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgd2l0aApidWdzL3F1aXJrcykgaWYgdmlydHVhbGl6 YXRpb24ganVzdCBleGVjdXRlcyB0aGUgb2xkIE0tbW9kZSBiaW5hcnkuCgpXaHkgbXVzdCBLVk0g cHJldmVudCB1c2Vyc3BhY2UgZnJvbSB2aXJ0dWFsaXppbmcgUklTQy1WPwoKPiBJIGFtIGFzc3Vt aW5nIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IGhpbnRpbmcgTmVzdGVkIHZpcnR1YWxpemF0aW9uIHdoaWNoIGNhbiBi ZSAKPiBhY2hpZXZlZCB3aXRoIGV4aXN0aW5nCj4gSVNBIHByb3ZpZGVkIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgYW5k IGFjY2VsZXJhdGVkIGJ5IFNCSSBOQUNMLgoKUmlnaHQsIEkgYW0gdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCB2aXJ0 dWFsaXphdGlvbiBvZiBSSVNDLVYsIGJlY2F1c2UgSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlCmEgY3J5c3RhbCBiYWxs IHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgd2hhdCB1c2VycyB3aWxsIHdhbnQuCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpsaW51eC1yaXNjdiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlu dXgtcmlzY3ZAbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xpbnV4LXJpc2N2Cg==