From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-pj1-f74.google.com (mail-pj1-f74.google.com [209.85.216.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D98A06FB7 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 20:29:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pj1-f74.google.com with SMTP id fy8-20020a17090b020800b002374c592205so154407pjb.5 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:29:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=iMpgRmyVDog12gGF5u00S3GFVvfa3RjsGhYYuIghQuw=; b=Oj0JNHRfBF0003MFOrybvJRxKWvg4a//DfyLNclUK+7N5/s7VjeN2Ybz0ne96gQ+y/ Kce+Q0ZXdzbS+HItx2LVYs6XbJeGYav5T0kxtg6oSGyyAnYLkgfUmKMvnWrz/RJr2iGt BiNuY4XQIP71ObixRoPGWBrf5q6zjI9OvmSI5XqGwGSoaN4Qo8PjJcVdjNQWqFmCbaNT fDylmTkY2OnILfYvuCp/0wvlS/vK3WqeY+Vs8jpgS0bDY+Fzi+bVe+j3RecifYahcIhh j4oJs7UNz2z7WtDg2Ub7n9qah3g+mR+nVEw9Z6a8GUszbe4QIdPOG3iK1M22brh9bkyW z3qg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iMpgRmyVDog12gGF5u00S3GFVvfa3RjsGhYYuIghQuw=; b=6TcIbuZZTc3DLMVXNGSE86rb0IX4PCe8JigDPQJlL5LfWVPg0YviXAiZ3arhuphExs Vy+w85XIeocsWx4DX6g6OZgNuvGXYxI2wVBZta7feKtf5G6lqe9HLIa3XsyGv8AD6Voo k5Cn8mUBHI8whT7lacUZajV4UWcGOJaIJWmWxxrEnSmkUesJNNhnAlcNWa/LkZ+lxWhM 3G/QrXVHJ29OBMB7c7ABW1nCG+X/oIPvdwM4ljvap8nq19uXE0m0jJGZevQ1Q19ug/eg VTrQJfwkNWN99efXqP8CAttJNY0MEF0dTSmpBlwanEQqrxvbzJkOyDNswpbLK2cy7KYO iscw== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKXeCDH1iv2BGB4SeTJDOM0AZjVqoVa4HPYahbJMelWZcO4s1wRa akZ3ztRfMRWAtBi2KSa04fk/siMlA90= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/XyWT2OAnpm11r3FBKVIDwL0kXrUZRkKccpnOexZiyXc1HvjHh6IvJEeYAirA5lDcDXm4Ck4IuD34= X-Received: from zagreus.c.googlers.com ([fda3:e722:ac3:cc00:7f:e700:c0a8:5c37]) (user=seanjc job=sendgmr) by 2002:a05:6a00:1955:b0:593:f5e4:8d87 with SMTP id s21-20020a056a00195500b00593f5e48d87mr2471665pfk.6.1677184140109; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:29:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:28:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: kvmarm@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20230217041230.2417228-1-yuzhao@google.com> <20230217041230.2417228-6-yuzhao@google.com> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH mm-unstable v1 5/5] mm: multi-gen LRU: use mmu_notifier_test_clear_young() From: Sean Christopherson To: Yu Zhao Cc: Johannes Weiner , Andrew Morton , Paolo Bonzini , Jonathan Corbet , Michael Larabel , kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, x86@kernel.org, linux-mm@google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, Yu Zhao wrote: > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:58=E2=80=AFPM Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, Yu Zhao wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:11=E2=80=AFPM Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, Yu Zhao wrote: > > > > > > As alluded to in patch 1, unless batching the walks even if KVM= does _not_ support > > > > > > a lockless walk is somehow _worse_ than using the existing mmu_= notifier_clear_flush_young(), > > > > > > I think batching the calls should be conditional only on LRU_GE= N_SPTE_WALK. Or > > > > > > if we want to avoid batching when there are no mmu_notifier lis= teners, probe > > > > > > mmu_notifiers. But don't call into KVM directly. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure I fully understand. Let's present the problem on the= MM > > > > > side: assuming KVM supports lockless walks, batching can still be > > > > > worse (very unlikely), because GFNs can exhibit no memory localit= y at > > > > > all. So this option allows userspace to disable batching. > > > > > > > > I'm asking the opposite. Is there a scenario where batching+lock i= s worse than > > > > !batching+lock? If not, then don't make batching depend on lockles= s walks. > > > > > > Yes, absolutely. batching+lock means we take/release mmu_lock for > > > every single PTE in the entire VA space -- each small batch contains > > > 64 PTEs but the entire batch is the whole KVM. > > > > Who is "we"? >=20 > Oops -- shouldn't have used "we". >=20 > > I don't see anything in the kernel that triggers walking the whole > > VMA, e.g. lru_gen_look_around() limits the walk to a single PMD. I fee= l like I'm > > missing something... >=20 > walk_mm() -> walk_pud_range() -> walk_pmd_range() -> walk_pte_range() > -> test_spte_young() -> mmu_notifier_test_clear_young(). >=20 > MGLRU takes two passes: during the first pass, it sweeps entire VA > space on each MM (per MM/KVM); during the second pass, it uses the rmap o= n each > folio (per folio). Ah. IIUC, userspace can use LRU_GEN_SPTE_WALK to control whether or not to= walk secondary MMUs, and the kernel further restricts LRU_GEN_SPTE_WALK to secon= dary MMUs that implement a lockless walk. And if the answer is "no", secondary = MMUs are simply not consulted. If that's correct, then the proper way to handle this is by extending mmu_n= otifier_ops to query (a) if there's at least one register listeners that implements test_clear_young() and (b) if all registered listeners that implement test_= clear_young() support lockless walks. That avoids direct dependencies on KVM, and avoids= making assumptions that may not always hold true, e.g. that KVM is the only mmu_no= tifier user that supports the young APIs. P.S. all of this info absolutely belongs in documentation and/or changelogs= . 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Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:29:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:28:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20230217041230.2417228-1-yuzhao@google.com> <20230217041230.2417228-6-yuzhao@google.com> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH mm-unstable v1 5/5] mm: multi-gen LRU: use mmu_notifier_test_clear_young() From: Sean Christopherson To: Yu Zhao Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux on PowerPC Developers Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-mm@google.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , Michael Larabel , x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, Johannes Weiner , kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, Paolo Bonzini , Andrew Morton , linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Errors-To: linuxppc-dev-bounces+linuxppc-dev=archiver.kernel.org@lists.ozlabs.org Sender: "Linuxppc-dev" On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, Yu Zhao wrote: > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:58=E2=80=AFPM Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, Yu Zhao wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 12:11=E2=80=AFPM Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, Yu Zhao wrote: > > > > > > As alluded to in patch 1, unless batching the walks even if KVM= does _not_ support > > > > > > a lockless walk is somehow _worse_ than using the existing mmu_= notifier_clear_flush_young(), > > > > > > I think batching the calls should be conditional only on LRU_GE= N_SPTE_WALK. Or > > > > > > if we want to avoid batching when there are no mmu_notifier lis= teners, probe > > > > > > mmu_notifiers. But don't call into KVM directly. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure I fully understand. Let's present the problem on the= MM > > > > > side: assuming KVM supports lockless walks, batching can still be > > > > > worse (very unlikely), because GFNs can exhibit no memory localit= y at > > > > > all. So this option allows userspace to disable batching. > > > > > > > > I'm asking the opposite. Is there a scenario where batching+lock i= s worse than > > > > !batching+lock? If not, then don't make batching depend on lockles= s walks. > > > > > > Yes, absolutely. batching+lock means we take/release mmu_lock for > > > every single PTE in the entire VA space -- each small batch contains > > > 64 PTEs but the entire batch is the whole KVM. > > > > Who is "we"? >=20 > Oops -- shouldn't have used "we". >=20 > > I don't see anything in the kernel that triggers walking the whole > > VMA, e.g. lru_gen_look_around() limits the walk to a single PMD. I fee= l like I'm > > missing something... >=20 > walk_mm() -> walk_pud_range() -> walk_pmd_range() -> walk_pte_range() > -> test_spte_young() -> mmu_notifier_test_clear_young(). >=20 > MGLRU takes two passes: during the first pass, it sweeps entire VA > space on each MM (per MM/KVM); during the second pass, it uses the rmap o= n each > folio (per folio). Ah. IIUC, userspace can use LRU_GEN_SPTE_WALK to control whether or not to= walk secondary MMUs, and the kernel further restricts LRU_GEN_SPTE_WALK to secon= dary MMUs that implement a lockless walk. And if the answer is "no", secondary = MMUs are simply not consulted. If that's correct, then the proper way to handle this is by extending mmu_n= otifier_ops to query (a) if there's at least one register listeners that implements test_clear_young() and (b) if all registered listeners that implement test_= clear_young() support lockless walks. That avoids direct dependencies on KVM, and avoids= making assumptions that may not always hold true, e.g. that KVM is the only mmu_no= tifier user that supports the young APIs. P.S. all of this info absolutely belongs in documentation and/or changelogs= . 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Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:29:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:28:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20230217041230.2417228-1-yuzhao@google.com> <20230217041230.2417228-6-yuzhao@google.com> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH mm-unstable v1 5/5] mm: multi-gen LRU: use mmu_notifier_test_clear_young() From: Sean Christopherson To: Yu Zhao Cc: Johannes Weiner , Andrew Morton , Paolo Bonzini , Jonathan Corbet , Michael Larabel , kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, x86@kernel.org, linux-mm@google.com X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20230223_122911_356726_6AF00CD2 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 25.47 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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