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Fri, 03 Feb 2023 00:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([86.61.181.4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ez22-20020a056402451600b004a2666397casm748456edb.63.2023.02.03.00.29.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 03 Feb 2023 00:29:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:29:50 +0100 From: Jiri Pirko To: Linus =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCssing?= Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5] batman-adv: Start new development cycle Message-ID: References: <20230127102133.700173-1-sw@simonwunderlich.de> <20230127102133.700173-2-sw@simonwunderlich.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: NRDVHGXVGIJRVEL4SWZHWAJRBW67GPC6 X-Message-ID-Hash: NRDVHGXVGIJRVEL4SWZHWAJRBW67GPC6 X-MailFrom: jiri@resnulli.us X-Mailman-Rule-Hits: nonmember-moderation X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-b.a.t.m.a.n.lists.open-mesh.org-0; header-match-b.a.t.m.a.n.lists.open-mesh.org-1 CC: kuba@kernel.org, davem@davemloft.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: The list for a Better Approach To Mobile Ad-hoc Networking Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Thu, Feb 02, 2023 at 07:44:06PM CET, linus.luessing@c0d3.blue wrote: >On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 03:55:08PM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: >> Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:21:29AM CET, sw@simonwunderlich.de wrote: >> >This version will contain all the (major or even only minor) changes for >> >Linux 6.3. >> > >> >The version number isn't a semantic version number with major and minor >> >information. It is just encoding the year of the expected publishing as >> >Linux -rc1 and the number of published versions this year (starting at 0). >> >> I wonder, what is this versioning good for? > >The best reason in my opinion is that it's useful to convince >ordinary people that they should update :-). > >Usually when debugging reported issues one of the first things we ask >users is to provide the output of "batctl -v": > >``` >$ batctl -v >batctl debian-2023.0-1 [batman-adv: 2022.3] Why kernel version is not enough for you? My point is, why to maintain internal driver version alongside with the kernel version? I just don't see any point of having these parallel driver versions. Looks like a historical relict. IDK. I'w just wondering, that's all. >``` > >If there is a very old year in there I think it's easier to tell >and convince people to try again with newer versions and to >update. > >And also as a developer I find it easier to (roughly) memorize >when a feature was added by year than by kernel version number. >So I know by heart that TVLVs were added in 2014 and multicast >snooping patches and new multicast handling was added around 2019 >for instance. But don't ask me which kernel version that was :D. >I'd have to look that up. So if "batctl -v" displayed a kernel >version number that would be less helpful for me. > >Also makes it easier for ordinary users to look up and >compare their version with our news archive: >https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/News-archive > >Also note that we can't do a simple kernel version to year >notation mapping in userspace in batctl. OpenWrt uses the most >recent Linux LTS release. But might feature a backport of a more >recent batman-adv which is newer than the one this stable kernel >would provide. Or people also often use Debian stable but compile >and use the latest batman-adv version with it. Yeah, for out of tree driver, have whatever. > >Does that make sense? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98D4C61DA4 for ; Fri, 3 Feb 2023 08:29:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231602AbjBCI3z (ORCPT ); Fri, 3 Feb 2023 03:29:55 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:39384 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230144AbjBCI3y (ORCPT ); Fri, 3 Feb 2023 03:29:54 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29418125A4 for ; Fri, 3 Feb 2023 00:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id q19so4444921edd.2 for ; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 00:29:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=resnulli-us.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hfmKJdlXOxE/kFxDa2h7oLPDGZoAZETt39bcuIPKzu8=; b=NffqiT2NvfuoTuVPABcBDZIwN8I0YPurOPxCWSagS99//JrPJ9ume8Ci6gFzSLBi90 ZynFGl3ybJvTIuYfIcDeBqIUp0OunEovH8zp9AKfcioXt3KXS2K1TLid/WEkbQOJGvzS ZlzoK+zxH7hzjENsbqq3BYgRYrdGOZHLbKdl/XEi6pUf6rAzZ6kHcY1pATJ2Dav0uOJF v7V2A3a+qdWXT10grNh7OTc4+dlKNKFiPoz06J29tVmY7xRhPiTo4KX+EDkp7qARjNu0 gULDAjvjXNE+s/V6f5NZ/toSWtXDS1hV7uI81D1VuuEUU+Wwt/qDfsMoCv/Kq5OpY2y4 3SZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=hfmKJdlXOxE/kFxDa2h7oLPDGZoAZETt39bcuIPKzu8=; b=bYT5JVsMeQWTbIcfzvgacZ5fatRwKN7ZkxiwLbtF2tl6EIy5BoA8NKLYrJDLWLT5Xd RMqHAoQOcYZtIXmy48DtxZqmZLAEyXh3y9r6raBheMzUB0/TmaeD2NB7pE5us8dW+iFq 9+5rMA3QtlIHiKCNVNk4BMSzn53FtxtKxdr4mWPhb10Zd68dYspaAOIf/uxL/6EGVTfQ ICZzs6B/+ioDbQevh5xzIjMFsSi59EPhWoSsERTBwbq8mL7c6+9cixeYdR3csyaYSmSp 9Hh+x3P5cMO/oOigfdOHhrmUimTVlmPDopwKskEBhPzVSrYZgIZvWKNZhLVkC8HPF6lY 4wWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKV6tMJOD1SLSyw8rc1tJMq+YL02IducHXugnV5oTR2/EohZoLjY HC3fgtw5hY1fGFWOHdSuPZSXncsyPhXNVqRNzok= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/uM5zQzVi4uj4iY9Ov7WgR4ieUlLdZpB6qbpLADbe5rj15JkYBgBn4Gn0WcvjF3rdhK5Jv+w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:26cb:b0:4a3:43c1:8439 with SMTP id x11-20020a05640226cb00b004a343c18439mr5272420edd.13.1675412991699; Fri, 03 Feb 2023 00:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([86.61.181.4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ez22-20020a056402451600b004a2666397casm748456edb.63.2023.02.03.00.29.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 03 Feb 2023 00:29:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 09:29:50 +0100 From: Jiri Pirko To: Linus =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCssing?= Cc: Simon Wunderlich , kuba@kernel.org, davem@davemloft.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5] batman-adv: Start new development cycle Message-ID: References: <20230127102133.700173-1-sw@simonwunderlich.de> <20230127102133.700173-2-sw@simonwunderlich.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: netdev@vger.kernel.org Thu, Feb 02, 2023 at 07:44:06PM CET, linus.luessing@c0d3.blue wrote: >On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 03:55:08PM +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote: >> Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:21:29AM CET, sw@simonwunderlich.de wrote: >> >This version will contain all the (major or even only minor) changes for >> >Linux 6.3. >> > >> >The version number isn't a semantic version number with major and minor >> >information. It is just encoding the year of the expected publishing as >> >Linux -rc1 and the number of published versions this year (starting at 0). >> >> I wonder, what is this versioning good for? > >The best reason in my opinion is that it's useful to convince >ordinary people that they should update :-). > >Usually when debugging reported issues one of the first things we ask >users is to provide the output of "batctl -v": > >``` >$ batctl -v >batctl debian-2023.0-1 [batman-adv: 2022.3] Why kernel version is not enough for you? My point is, why to maintain internal driver version alongside with the kernel version? I just don't see any point of having these parallel driver versions. Looks like a historical relict. IDK. I'w just wondering, that's all. >``` > >If there is a very old year in there I think it's easier to tell >and convince people to try again with newer versions and to >update. > >And also as a developer I find it easier to (roughly) memorize >when a feature was added by year than by kernel version number. >So I know by heart that TVLVs were added in 2014 and multicast >snooping patches and new multicast handling was added around 2019 >for instance. But don't ask me which kernel version that was :D. >I'd have to look that up. So if "batctl -v" displayed a kernel >version number that would be less helpful for me. > >Also makes it easier for ordinary users to look up and >compare their version with our news archive: >https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/News-archive > >Also note that we can't do a simple kernel version to year >notation mapping in userspace in batctl. OpenWrt uses the most >recent Linux LTS release. But might feature a backport of a more >recent batman-adv which is newer than the one this stable kernel >would provide. Or people also often use Debian stable but compile >and use the latest batman-adv version with it. Yeah, for out of tree driver, have whatever. > >Does that make sense?