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From: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>
To: Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>
Cc: kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org
Subject: Re: efivars
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:07:49 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YUtU1RxEU8OxCeJx@kroah.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210922154742.GA12004@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 11:47:42AM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:35:15AM +0200, Greg KH wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:22:22AM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > What is this for?
> > > 
> > > efivarfs on /sys/firmware/efi/efivars type efivarfs
> > > 
> > > why would the OS need to know anything about the UEFI 
> > > boot loader once it is up and running?
> > 
> > Because there are lots of needed system information that the OS, and
> > userspace, needs to get from UEFI after the system has booted.
> 
> Such as what?  It is not needed when booting with LILO?

Do you really still use LILO?

> Once the OS is up and running, what possible reason does the OS need
> anything about the booting enviroonment?

It needs to get up and running.  And even then, while running, it still
needs to get some information from UEFI.  Fun things like device
information, system information, and other things.

Look at what `dmidecode` gives you, that's one example.

> > Why do you think it does not need to be present?  What problems is
> > having it there causing?
> > 
> 
> Aside from the obvious security issues?  It is a huge problem for
> installation from BIOS environments and it is an unneeded lock in.

What "lock in"?  Your system relies on the bootloader to interact with
the system both to boot, and for some system interactions while running.
That's just how ACPI/UEFI works.

If you don't like this, wonderful, use a system based on a different
type of bootloader.  But in the end, they end up all having to do the
same thing somehow :)

> All I want the boot loader to do is fine the kernel and run it.

Your bootloader also has to do a lot more things (initialize hardware,
provide information to the OS as to what hardware is present, do
system-level things like suspend/resume, etc.)

> I can't think of anything that a bootload does that should be needed for
> a running OS whatsoever.  What are EFI variables that are being stored
> and manipulated?

Look at them and see, it's all there for you to read.  The whole UEFI
spec is also public as well as a working implementation of the code that
is used for your system.

thanks,

greg k-h

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-09-22 16:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-22  6:22 efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-22  6:35 ` efivars Greg KH
2021-09-22 15:47   ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-22 16:07     ` Greg KH [this message]
2021-09-23  4:01       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  9:56       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23 10:10         ` efivars Greg KH
2021-09-23 10:28         ` efivars FMDF
2021-09-23 12:34           ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23 12:40           ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23 12:44           ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-22 15:58   ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-22 16:11     ` efivars Greg KH
2021-09-22 17:04     ` efivars Valdis Klētnieks
2021-09-23  1:51       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  2:02       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  2:10         ` efivars Dave Stevens
2021-09-23  5:41         ` efivars Greg KH
2021-09-23  2:07       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  7:32         ` efivars Bjørn Mork
2021-09-23  8:41           ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  8:57             ` efivars Greg KH
2021-09-23  8:12         ` efivars Valdis Klētnieks
2021-09-23  8:32           ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  7:13     ` efivars Bjørn Mork
2021-09-23  9:17       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  9:39         ` efivars Greg KH
     [not found] ` <CAPj211tgoRDDsZA_1ZM-kWRiHM9r2MQVi5b-mQenpP8pQmfvXg@mail.gmail.com>
2021-09-22 15:56   ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  7:11 ` efivars FMDF
2021-09-23  7:22   ` efivars FMDF
2021-09-23  7:27     ` efivars FMDF
2021-09-23 12:24       ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23 12:36         ` efivars Greg KH
2021-09-23  9:38   ` efivars Ruben Safir
2021-09-23  9:56     ` efivars Greg KH

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