From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0C2C43334 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:53:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S233313AbiGRIxr (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jul 2022 04:53:47 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:57252 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229711AbiGRIxq (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jul 2022 04:53:46 -0400 Received: from pandora.armlinux.org.uk (pandora.armlinux.org.uk [IPv6:2001:4d48:ad52:32c8:5054:ff:fe00:142]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8BCB323; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 01:53:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=armlinux.org.uk; s=pandora-2019; h=Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ToUKRE4eNm6A2sNEpB2OgcNUP6tRu+NWWWVVE3lb698=; b=axll7zDzOI4zNYGcIznYOr22/b zZLBakwxRpaoKWTIi8Rs4mQFujP8xxWOnylDB8E0KizU/HcmQkqKn+oa4WBQW8DwXVaLTLJl9EU/s rA7wYM+lzml0of/QCDYlICeakokyYcNziX6hHNQ9mvlgsjbE1Od62xR1s7IMGEWgDx2pEJs680Vay YbvI7hIuvwse9JclVDvvD/GEnBhazCgZU7yjzxN/EABM/A28BJOsnGCXIMmkQqv/FDrwuOqX7sNr/ ifPhRxlVjyPGjvCW7rYa9qSN8vqQBWn5rbLfYTH26/j500fZPrUk0xRhobryiga/kNPt/RWNB+uFP PiDXOnUA==; Received: from shell.armlinux.org.uk ([fd8f:7570:feb6:1:5054:ff:fe00:4ec]:33400) by pandora.armlinux.org.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDMVK-0001Im-4Z; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:53:26 +0100 Received: from linux by shell.armlinux.org.uk with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDMVH-0001pv-28; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:53:23 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:53:23 +0100 From: "Russell King (Oracle)" To: Vladimir Oltean Cc: Jakub Kicinski , Andrew Lunn , Heiner Kallweit , Alexandre Belloni , Alvin =?utf-8?Q?=C5=A0ipraga?= , Andy Shevchenko , Claudiu Manoil , Daniel Scally , "David S. Miller" , DENG Qingfang , Eric Dumazet , Florian Fainelli , George McCollister , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Hauke Mehrtens , Heikki Krogerus , Kurt Kanzenbach , Landen Chao , Linus Walleij , linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Marek =?iso-8859-1?Q?Beh=FAn?= , Matthias Brugger , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Paolo Abeni , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Sakari Ailus , Sean Wang , UNGLinuxDriver@microchip.com, Vivien Didelot , Woojung Huh Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/6] net: dsa: always use phylink Message-ID: References: <20220715171719.niqcrklpk4ittfvl@skbuf> <20220715160359.2e9dabfe@kernel.org> <20220716111551.64rjruz4q4g5uzee@skbuf> <20220716131345.b2jas3rucsifli7g@skbuf> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20220716131345.b2jas3rucsifli7g@skbuf> Sender: Russell King (Oracle) Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 04:13:45PM +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 12:43:00PM +0100, Russell King (Oracle) wrote: > > In the first RFC series I sent on the 24 June, I explicitly asked the > > following questions: > (...) > > I even stated: "Please look at the patches and make suggestions on how > > we can proceed to clean up this quirk of DSA." and made no mention of > > wanting something explicitly from Andrew. > > > > Yet, none of those questions were answered. > > > > So no, Jakub's comments are *not* misdirected at all. Go back and read > > my June 24th RFC series yourself: > > > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/YrWi5oBFn7vR15BH@shell.armlinux.org.uk/ > > I don't believe I need to justify myself any further for why I didn't > leave a comment on any certain day. I left my comments when I believed > it was most appropriate for me to intervene (as someone who isn't really > affected in any way by the changes, except for generally maintaining > what's in net/dsa/, and wanting to keep a clean framework structure). > Also, to repeat myself, blaming me for leaving comments, but doing so > late, is not really fair. I could have not responded at all, and I > wouldn't be having this unpleasant discussion. It begs the question > whether you're willing to be held accountable in the same way for the > dates on which you respond on RFC patches. > > > I've *tried* my best to be kind and collaborative, but I've been > > ignored. Now I'm hacked off. This could have been avoided by responding > > to my explicit questions sooner, rather than at the -rc6/-rc7 stage of > > the show. > > I think you should continue to try your best to be kind and collaborative, > you weren't provoked or intentionally ignored in any way, and it isn't > doing these patches any good. And yet again, I don't have answers to many of those questions... which just shows how broken this process is, and how utterly pointless it is 0to ask any questions in this area. My conclusion: you don't care one bit to even answer questions until there's a chance that patches that you disagree with might be merged, and oh my god, you've got to respond to stop that happening because you might disagree with something. You can't do the collaborative thing and respond when someone asks explicit questions about how things should be done. I'm not going to let this go. I'm really pissed off by this and you are the focus of my frustration. Well, its now too late to do anything about this. This is going to miss this cycle. It might get in next cycle, and whoopy do, for a kernel that's very likely to be a LTS. Given the lack of testing that sounds like a complete and utter disaster. One that was entirely avoidable had feedback been given EARLIER in this cycle. -- RMK's Patch system: https://www.armlinux.org.uk/developer/patches/ FTTP is here! 40Mbps down 10Mbps up. Decent connectivity at last! From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C7A2C43334 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:55:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post: List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References: Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: List-Owner; bh=svu1qpMPid4n7Rmfp2B27hfnyKKASMBCxRxZdSH6b3I=; b=LEnE6Kdfqsae5C DFSnObx8qCgPd36Bml+3YVZEyJbQD51Bb8z2nE2+IFSMUcWzmq+PEb1AyDLH+cXVISimqyt45A29e 5zsa8qZ/tAcrnA7WDcvJKJ/PHGIO1ffsdPBKsjuEm4pdHAXJqv0X5HkF1WYPuvws0gIdoyxSObAtr uuTUPYEp/BtUex53Ocg7trV4acw55elLrOx47H1zMpnziNkz2LOjqkjlyS7VBKrA+5JBb3G3VY1R7 +LdU6Tf6tTJBnTTEE1Slfu9F/cd+quzwrJGU/eDZO+e72GndE8Fhz6Xr5bRv+lIJ0mPyq69IzxjRB 98yUfjP7cWaArlypjD2A==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=bombadil.infradead.org) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1oDMVh-00BucO-O3; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:53:49 +0000 Received: from pandora.armlinux.org.uk ([2001:4d48:ad52:32c8:5054:ff:fe00:142]) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.94.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1oDMVe-00Buaw-RE; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:53:48 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=armlinux.org.uk; s=pandora-2019; h=Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ToUKRE4eNm6A2sNEpB2OgcNUP6tRu+NWWWVVE3lb698=; b=axll7zDzOI4zNYGcIznYOr22/b zZLBakwxRpaoKWTIi8Rs4mQFujP8xxWOnylDB8E0KizU/HcmQkqKn+oa4WBQW8DwXVaLTLJl9EU/s rA7wYM+lzml0of/QCDYlICeakokyYcNziX6hHNQ9mvlgsjbE1Od62xR1s7IMGEWgDx2pEJs680Vay YbvI7hIuvwse9JclVDvvD/GEnBhazCgZU7yjzxN/EABM/A28BJOsnGCXIMmkQqv/FDrwuOqX7sNr/ ifPhRxlVjyPGjvCW7rYa9qSN8vqQBWn5rbLfYTH26/j500fZPrUk0xRhobryiga/kNPt/RWNB+uFP PiDXOnUA==; Received: from shell.armlinux.org.uk ([fd8f:7570:feb6:1:5054:ff:fe00:4ec]:33400) by pandora.armlinux.org.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDMVK-0001Im-4Z; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:53:26 +0100 Received: from linux by shell.armlinux.org.uk with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDMVH-0001pv-28; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:53:23 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:53:23 +0100 From: "Russell King (Oracle)" To: Vladimir Oltean Cc: Jakub Kicinski , Andrew Lunn , Heiner Kallweit , Alexandre Belloni , Alvin =?utf-8?Q?=C5=A0ipraga?= , Andy Shevchenko , Claudiu Manoil , Daniel Scally , "David S. Miller" , DENG Qingfang , Eric Dumazet , Florian Fainelli , George McCollister , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Hauke Mehrtens , Heikki Krogerus , Kurt Kanzenbach , Landen Chao , Linus Walleij , linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Marek =?iso-8859-1?Q?Beh=FAn?= , Matthias Brugger , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Paolo Abeni , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Sakari Ailus , Sean Wang , UNGLinuxDriver@microchip.com, Vivien Didelot , Woojung Huh Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/6] net: dsa: always use phylink Message-ID: References: <20220715171719.niqcrklpk4ittfvl@skbuf> <20220715160359.2e9dabfe@kernel.org> <20220716111551.64rjruz4q4g5uzee@skbuf> <20220716131345.b2jas3rucsifli7g@skbuf> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20220716131345.b2jas3rucsifli7g@skbuf> X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20220718_015346_907994_C99C11DF X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 27.54 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 04:13:45PM +0300, Vladimir Oltean wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 12:43:00PM +0100, Russell King (Oracle) wrote: > > In the first RFC series I sent on the 24 June, I explicitly asked the > > following questions: > (...) > > I even stated: "Please look at the patches and make suggestions on how > > we can proceed to clean up this quirk of DSA." and made no mention of > > wanting something explicitly from Andrew. > > > > Yet, none of those questions were answered. > > > > So no, Jakub's comments are *not* misdirected at all. Go back and read > > my June 24th RFC series yourself: > > > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/YrWi5oBFn7vR15BH@shell.armlinux.org.uk/ > > I don't believe I need to justify myself any further for why I didn't > leave a comment on any certain day. I left my comments when I believed > it was most appropriate for me to intervene (as someone who isn't really > affected in any way by the changes, except for generally maintaining > what's in net/dsa/, and wanting to keep a clean framework structure). > Also, to repeat myself, blaming me for leaving comments, but doing so > late, is not really fair. I could have not responded at all, and I > wouldn't be having this unpleasant discussion. It begs the question > whether you're willing to be held accountable in the same way for the > dates on which you respond on RFC patches. > > > I've *tried* my best to be kind and collaborative, but I've been > > ignored. Now I'm hacked off. This could have been avoided by responding > > to my explicit questions sooner, rather than at the -rc6/-rc7 stage of > > the show. > > I think you should continue to try your best to be kind and collaborative, > you weren't provoked or intentionally ignored in any way, and it isn't > doing these patches any good. And yet again, I don't have answers to many of those questions... which just shows how broken this process is, and how utterly pointless it is 0to ask any questions in this area. My conclusion: you don't care one bit to even answer questions until there's a chance that patches that you disagree with might be merged, and oh my god, you've got to respond to stop that happening because you might disagree with something. You can't do the collaborative thing and respond when someone asks explicit questions about how things should be done. I'm not going to let this go. I'm really pissed off by this and you are the focus of my frustration. Well, its now too late to do anything about this. This is going to miss this cycle. It might get in next cycle, and whoopy do, for a kernel that's very likely to be a LTS. Given the lack of testing that sounds like a complete and utter disaster. One that was entirely avoidable had feedback been given EARLIER in this cycle. -- RMK's Patch system: https://www.armlinux.org.uk/developer/patches/ FTTP is here! 40Mbps down 10Mbps up. Decent connectivity at last! _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel