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From: Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@gmail.com>
To: Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>
Cc: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	will@kernel.org, npiggin@gmail.com, dhowells@redhat.com,
	j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk, luc.maranget@inria.fr, akiyks@gmail.com,
	dlustig@nvidia.com, joel@joelfernandes.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: "Verifying and Optimizing Compact NUMA-Aware Locks on Weak Memory Models"
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 04:15:42 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YwwhG8bzsKlJ2eEY@anparri> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YwpJ4ZPVbuCnnFKS@boqun-archlinux>

> FWIW, C++ defines this as (in https://eel.is/c++draft/atomics#order-11):
> 
> 	Implementations should make atomic stores visible to atomic
> 	loads within a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> in other words:
> 
> if one thread does an atomic store, then all other threads must see that
> store eventually.
> 
> (from: https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/136281-t-lang.2Fwg-unsafe-code-guidelines/topic/Rust.20forward.20progress.20guarantees/near/294702950)
> 
> Should we add something somewhere in our model, maybe in the
> explanation.txt?

FYI, that's briefly mentioned in Section 11, "CACHE COHERENCE AND THE
COHERENCE ORDER RELATION: co, coi, and coe":

  "sequential consistency per variable and cache coherence mean the
   same thing except that cache coherence includes an extra requirement
   that every store eventually becomes visible to every CPU"

  Andrea


> Plus, I think we cannot express this in Herd because Herd uses
> graph-based model (axiomatic model) instead of an operational model to
> describe the model: axiomatic model cannot describe "something will
> eventually happen". There was also some discussion in the zulip steam
> of Rust unsafe-code-guidelines.

  reply	other threads:[~2022-08-29  2:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-08-26 12:48 "Verifying and Optimizing Compact NUMA-Aware Locks on Weak Memory Models" Paul E. McKenney
2022-08-26 16:21 ` Boqun Feng
2022-08-26 16:23 ` Peter Zijlstra
2022-08-26 17:10   ` Alan Stern
2022-08-26 20:42     ` Paul E. McKenney
2022-08-27 16:00       ` Alan Stern
2022-08-27 17:04         ` Paul E. McKenney
2022-09-13 11:24       ` Will Deacon
2022-09-13 12:21         ` Dan Lustig
2022-09-16  8:18           ` Will Deacon
2022-08-26 23:47     ` Peter Zijlstra
2022-08-27 16:05       ` Alan Stern
2022-08-27 16:44         ` Boqun Feng
2022-08-29  2:15           ` Andrea Parri [this message]
2022-09-09 11:45           ` Jonas Oberhauser
2022-09-10 12:11             ` Hernan Luis Ponce de Leon
2022-09-10 15:03               ` Alan Stern
2022-09-10 20:41                 ` Hernan Luis Ponce de Leon
2022-09-11 10:20                   ` Joel Fernandes
2022-09-12 10:13                     ` Jonas Oberhauser
2022-09-12 11:10                       ` Hernan Luis Ponce de Leon
2022-09-14 14:41                         ` Alan Stern
2022-09-12 12:01                       ` Alan Stern
2022-09-11 14:53                   ` Andrea Parri
2022-09-12 10:46                 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2022-09-12 12:02                   ` Alan Stern
2022-08-29  2:33 ` Andrea Parri
2022-08-29 12:25   ` Paul E. McKenney

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