From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CCDEB64DC for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 16:02:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230290AbjFYQCo (ORCPT ); Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:44 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:48352 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229557AbjFYQCk (ORCPT ); Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:40 -0400 Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F8A7F3 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 09:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020725C004D; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= invisiblethingslab.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1687708954; x=1687795354; bh=wMcppq5HZO253j+hyCAKfHs6I2/WnmUX/Zy 15bchwPI=; b=WXIUvR94NwwBVEpbCv4bzPfUVlxpmshpV5YIa38BBBGWmkytgHm ny/x28OJawbgrwTz3iYu2it9WM62s4xCoJlsM/XIJBYxGue0lxOUw+oLFZFouiYF 2N35r61q6tuP2uhSqbsIRXnse58EAO/PUs5Dc7GJ0Y8WbyV/tTdDaa7JSNZT8Vv5 Tf0WKm3wK0GpLZy4S4zsgnEU5mnQ10B7gI1KF1WBkXcUJrvwvjtqiYPfdJQiFtaz 5zhhSn+53EVWJ3EDxjt1X47Xj7HOVOQaL6Rv4GgdgoP5fs4OsFynB0O7m32kP9kG VYKDnUhvI4IaFh8P3yFGoQR8KaVj/HsnrDQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1687708954; x=1687795354; bh=wMcppq5HZO253 j+hyCAKfHs6I2/WnmUX/Zy15bchwPI=; b=ArxSAcgUovlGAMkkQ/nJWNYomxffw yuSLrqLCuf1C7CXjqgO1M3YQuX0bxMxtPwDN8WXsWJ17O3RkYR4uFk+K3rd206wk QcYPiregtKDam+JKnWf0nNro0WYKiK38GAODimbOzKsT7mdqFRPEmxhUV5ryT1vr IMvl3x54h5hwfB/69R9RnwTTCyNX8vAcWJc5Mro1UkuuvoPxOzbQdoflmmZorGGg mP771jxc2wOJBPOmm8a0RBgh4XtNLxYVwtJGon3D2imV/ShU/Py80BP968Y9aBoE 41jUWh50XUjfKxisNMr8BwyXtRd5u/OCdVURR7RGqji13VUQjm1J054Xg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrgeehtddgleegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomhepffgvmhhi ucforghrihgvucfqsggvnhhouhhruceouggvmhhisehinhhvihhsihgslhgvthhhihhngh hslhgrsgdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepudeileefueetvdelheeuteffjeeg jeegffekleevueelueekjeejudffteejkeetnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenuc frrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepuggvmhhisehinhhvihhsihgslhgvthhhihhnghhs lhgrsgdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iac594737:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:29 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation Message-ID: References: <20230624230950.2272-1-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <20230624230950.2272-4-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <0b22e328-40e1-54d7-367c-96059a3fef7c@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LLikrifq3elm0+u6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0b22e328-40e1-54d7-367c-96059a3fef7c@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --LLikrifq3elm0+u6 Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:29 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 03:25:38PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote: > On 6/25/23 01:09, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > > Userspace can use this to avoid spamming udev with events that udev > > should ignore. >=20 > Well, does it also mean that udev will not create /dev/disk/by-* symlinks > (as response to the change udev event followed by internal udev blkid sca= n)? In the use-case I have for this feature (block devices for Qubes VMs) the blkid scan is unwanted and there are udev rules to prevent this. > If it is a private device, that is ok. But for a visible device I think > that it breaks some assumptions in userspace (presence of symlinks mentio= ned > above etc). The devices I am considering are implementation details of a userspace process. Nobody else should be opening them. Ideally, no other userspace process would even know they exist, at least without mucking around in /proc or using ptrace. > So, what is the exact use for this patch? Ephemeral devices that are created, opened, marked for deferred removal, assigned to a Xen VM (needs another patch currently being worked on), and then closed. udev has no business scanning these devices, and indeed for it to scan them at all would be a security vulnerability since their contents are under guest control. There are udev rules to ignore these devices, but for udev to even process the event wastes CPU time and delays processing of other events that actually matter. The only symlink that possibly ought to be created is /dev/disk/by-diskseq and I can just do that myself. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) Invisible Things Lab --LLikrifq3elm0+u6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEdodNnxM2uiJZBxxxsoi1X/+cIsEFAmSYZRgACgkQsoi1X/+c IsHJyA/+IJjlQ3TEADPdYhQeK6IxVs0Ggy0keFLY6+r4jHI5FM3SJ99om+Iu8WkN jQ2iQ24VyeO3lu3J6Y5GkpkJ6qLvfY0HpqgN6+2TKQoOgXyYuvGRODoFPpB/xA41 jtPTIGtZF+U9AdweW9p0W63z3tTf9v9tDVFB0XF8F0Bp3/cWdSrS6BbhC9BFCqke 0c5JNsz+OVSx0C7VJ+SYEWZ6Va/DM9tybZpygumsyu3ZKZjyFdyL23x1e0HYKZis rAr39c2ntv0VtwGmDFly6oWLzdhtkDXahJ7DvQKt4cpslDfrwMjgLNpvbRj49RO3 LcJWNpoXm9vNfzIr/p2T3NUajczXCmygE5OvIi5286tOjU/LdE9b2Fgjhpbsh6+3 leOU3ntYPrW9brLPExg5PaJTa6q4ZGr8YiOfv40lOlaHjG6I9QcaPEBVBBJ3QQ5L VTc0XPyzMJxKLSNsM5jqxgtKt+uFhqNqkGwKemIvabOjWaLwZAYj+TpJU4HNFdaw BldSECUfgCagcYsSFpvwcTMTdV48bdlN4hJUXxPBlVcJ93TldBop95mp/mjLMeAr hiQvd9MCHKJpRRZwTO214eFYejYVEntxYYrk6nfWRz8lmrWiTS+hFE+4bXZ0MdJY bV4yGsUBfTpS1PM4dHMxmF3sELoKTjo6ssSHhqfeyi2DMxgOmdo= =1n/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LLikrifq3elm0+u6-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [170.10.133.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13C3CC0015E for ; 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Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:29 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Message-ID: References: <20230624230950.2272-1-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <20230624230950.2272-4-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <0b22e328-40e1-54d7-367c-96059a3fef7c@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0b22e328-40e1-54d7-367c-96059a3fef7c@gmail.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.6 Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation X-BeenThere: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: device-mapper development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1543002905064109945==" Errors-To: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Sender: "dm-devel" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.8 --===============1543002905064109945== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LLikrifq3elm0+u6" Content-Disposition: inline --LLikrifq3elm0+u6 Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02:29 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 03:25:38PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote: > On 6/25/23 01:09, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > > Userspace can use this to avoid spamming udev with events that udev > > should ignore. >=20 > Well, does it also mean that udev will not create /dev/disk/by-* symlinks > (as response to the change udev event followed by internal udev blkid sca= n)? In the use-case I have for this feature (block devices for Qubes VMs) the blkid scan is unwanted and there are udev rules to prevent this. > If it is a private device, that is ok. But for a visible device I think > that it breaks some assumptions in userspace (presence of symlinks mentio= ned > above etc). The devices I am considering are implementation details of a userspace process. Nobody else should be opening them. Ideally, no other userspace process would even know they exist, at least without mucking around in /proc or using ptrace. > So, what is the exact use for this patch? Ephemeral devices that are created, opened, marked for deferred removal, assigned to a Xen VM (needs another patch currently being worked on), and then closed. udev has no business scanning these devices, and indeed for it to scan them at all would be a security vulnerability since their contents are under guest control. There are udev rules to ignore these devices, but for udev to even process the event wastes CPU time and delays processing of other events that actually matter. The only symlink that possibly ought to be created is /dev/disk/by-diskseq and I can just do that myself. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) Invisible Things Lab --LLikrifq3elm0+u6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEdodNnxM2uiJZBxxxsoi1X/+cIsEFAmSYZRgACgkQsoi1X/+c IsHJyA/+IJjlQ3TEADPdYhQeK6IxVs0Ggy0keFLY6+r4jHI5FM3SJ99om+Iu8WkN jQ2iQ24VyeO3lu3J6Y5GkpkJ6qLvfY0HpqgN6+2TKQoOgXyYuvGRODoFPpB/xA41 jtPTIGtZF+U9AdweW9p0W63z3tTf9v9tDVFB0XF8F0Bp3/cWdSrS6BbhC9BFCqke 0c5JNsz+OVSx0C7VJ+SYEWZ6Va/DM9tybZpygumsyu3ZKZjyFdyL23x1e0HYKZis rAr39c2ntv0VtwGmDFly6oWLzdhtkDXahJ7DvQKt4cpslDfrwMjgLNpvbRj49RO3 LcJWNpoXm9vNfzIr/p2T3NUajczXCmygE5OvIi5286tOjU/LdE9b2Fgjhpbsh6+3 leOU3ntYPrW9brLPExg5PaJTa6q4ZGr8YiOfv40lOlaHjG6I9QcaPEBVBBJ3QQ5L VTc0XPyzMJxKLSNsM5jqxgtKt+uFhqNqkGwKemIvabOjWaLwZAYj+TpJU4HNFdaw BldSECUfgCagcYsSFpvwcTMTdV48bdlN4hJUXxPBlVcJ93TldBop95mp/mjLMeAr hiQvd9MCHKJpRRZwTO214eFYejYVEntxYYrk6nfWRz8lmrWiTS+hFE+4bXZ0MdJY bV4yGsUBfTpS1PM4dHMxmF3sELoKTjo6ssSHhqfeyi2DMxgOmdo= =1n/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LLikrifq3elm0+u6-- --===============1543002905064109945== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -- dm-devel mailing list dm-devel@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel --===============1543002905064109945==--