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Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:43:44 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Message-ID: References: <20230624230950.2272-1-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <20230624230950.2272-4-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <0b22e328-40e1-54d7-367c-96059a3fef7c@gmail.com> <81c94a1e-b316-c195-402c-01776f3200dc@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <81c94a1e-b316-c195-402c-01776f3200dc@gmail.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.9 Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation X-BeenThere: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: device-mapper development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4939505936099087125==" Errors-To: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Sender: "dm-devel" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.9 --===============4939505936099087125== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW" Content-Disposition: inline --xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:43:44 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 06:33:33PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote: > On 6/25/23 18:02, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 03:25:38PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote: > > > On 6/25/23 01:09, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > > > > Userspace can use this to avoid spamming udev with events that udev > > > > should ignore. > > >=20 > > > Well, does it also mean that udev will not create /dev/disk/by-* syml= inks > > > (as response to the change udev event followed by internal udev blkid= scan)? > >=20 > > In the use-case I have for this feature (block devices for Qubes VMs) > > the blkid scan is unwanted and there are udev rules to prevent this. > >=20 > > > If it is a private device, that is ok. But for a visible device I thi= nk > > > that it breaks some assumptions in userspace (presence of symlinks me= ntioned > > > above etc). > >=20 > > The devices I am considering are implementation details of a userspace > > process. Nobody else should be opening them. Ideally, no other > > userspace process would even know they exist, at least without mucking > > around in /proc or using ptrace. > >=20 > > > So, what is the exact use for this patch? > >=20 > > Ephemeral devices that are created, opened, marked for deferred removal, > > assigned to a Xen VM (needs another patch currently being worked on), > > and then closed. udev has no business scanning these devices, and > > indeed for it to scan them at all would be a security vulnerability > > since their contents are under guest control. There are udev rules to > > ignore these devices, but for udev to even process the event wastes CPU > > time and delays processing of other events that actually matter. The > > only symlink that possibly ought to be created is /dev/disk/by-diskseq > > and I can just do that myself. > But this is not clear from the patch header. I guess you also need > to disable udev inotify on close on write, which will trigger device scan= too. >=20 > BTW we use exactly this scenario in cryptsetup for years with existing fl= ags > (DM_UDEV_DISABLE_SUBSYSTEM_RULES_FLAG | DM_UDEV_DISABLE_DISK_RULES_FLAG > DM_UDEV_DISABLE_OTHER_RULES_FLAG) - just rules are ignored while uevent i= s still > sent. > Anyway, not sure we need another way to disable it; I just asked do you n= eed it. How can one set these flags using the raw kernel ioctls? The code I am working on does not use libdevmapper at all and just uses the kernel API directly. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) Invisible Things Lab --xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEdodNnxM2uiJZBxxxsoi1X/+cIsEFAmSYbsQACgkQsoi1X/+c IsG7Lg/+JO5Xx1J/OAEBlAdC5MHRtdJVoYorTf91RrYG3eFJcxMF8EjoKbwFUL+Q NzQ6bpzZx7QUHKybUCJD9h2OYBz1y5gUllfw8nbffxncrlWLuIEuuFah9pJQSz1P WQD0g8KFCpW0atLhAaEYJEdU6eABOL53une4H3NShRUZ0UR5Mj3hAWNUuq2GL+QA VmA1Riz/w8l3ynOucuexpefC+s4UMn1kel4PYVRQkD81UFn5Qn/OtwNbabJwSA2P XyvQHcEEsKbdsd7hYyxLB1JgPRtp83qLI7uclQofJlFpaxPN/1apjaw049IX1akY OZOGaUWIG/xyXd9zh7mwHFf37bvjwLEzASEyKKA4btO/Lsql8zpUmxuOkN6/xYoo 5fRVYLle1lXg2l1Pe55Igu65Z/n+zeWq1oxi3WA1zIOFyVOzR6Jp6g4g4u7X7iBO 1HbPca1foLtfdEL47/55ZyikIi4Z1Mu7v5gZDZnwdtRB2oklj1VyWsjFZzPNRo7P UJY93Ldmjgg26eDukMQNYQGcPXb4+7eo90C9KkaDoWP2ykyWiStmDBZviYrkSp0j 8c1VfdvnieL9maPHq5gH8SyzSK1Q9Z7J1zptSe6+7xrhd3cc3AlJbLvP1EBwU5fX ZfF4M4f+2H72QR8ATh4akixRJ9FZs64YoRKKYWxVvTiOd5GCCa0= =CIIC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW-- --===============4939505936099087125== Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:43:44 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation Message-ID: References: <20230624230950.2272-1-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <20230624230950.2272-4-demi@invisiblethingslab.com> <0b22e328-40e1-54d7-367c-96059a3fef7c@gmail.com> <81c94a1e-b316-c195-402c-01776f3200dc@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <81c94a1e-b316-c195-402c-01776f3200dc@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:43:44 -0400 From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Milan Broz , Alasdair Kergon , Mike Snitzer , dm-devel@redhat.com Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] dm ioctl: Allow userspace to suppress uevent generation On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 06:33:33PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote: > On 6/25/23 18:02, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 03:25:38PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote: > > > On 6/25/23 01:09, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > > > > Userspace can use this to avoid spamming udev with events that udev > > > > should ignore. > > >=20 > > > Well, does it also mean that udev will not create /dev/disk/by-* syml= inks > > > (as response to the change udev event followed by internal udev blkid= scan)? > >=20 > > In the use-case I have for this feature (block devices for Qubes VMs) > > the blkid scan is unwanted and there are udev rules to prevent this. > >=20 > > > If it is a private device, that is ok. But for a visible device I thi= nk > > > that it breaks some assumptions in userspace (presence of symlinks me= ntioned > > > above etc). > >=20 > > The devices I am considering are implementation details of a userspace > > process. Nobody else should be opening them. Ideally, no other > > userspace process would even know they exist, at least without mucking > > around in /proc or using ptrace. > >=20 > > > So, what is the exact use for this patch? > >=20 > > Ephemeral devices that are created, opened, marked for deferred removal, > > assigned to a Xen VM (needs another patch currently being worked on), > > and then closed. udev has no business scanning these devices, and > > indeed for it to scan them at all would be a security vulnerability > > since their contents are under guest control. There are udev rules to > > ignore these devices, but for udev to even process the event wastes CPU > > time and delays processing of other events that actually matter. The > > only symlink that possibly ought to be created is /dev/disk/by-diskseq > > and I can just do that myself. > But this is not clear from the patch header. I guess you also need > to disable udev inotify on close on write, which will trigger device scan= too. >=20 > BTW we use exactly this scenario in cryptsetup for years with existing fl= ags > (DM_UDEV_DISABLE_SUBSYSTEM_RULES_FLAG | DM_UDEV_DISABLE_DISK_RULES_FLAG > DM_UDEV_DISABLE_OTHER_RULES_FLAG) - just rules are ignored while uevent i= s still > sent. > Anyway, not sure we need another way to disable it; I just asked do you n= eed it. How can one set these flags using the raw kernel ioctls? The code I am working on does not use libdevmapper at all and just uses the kernel API directly. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) Invisible Things Lab --xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEdodNnxM2uiJZBxxxsoi1X/+cIsEFAmSYbsQACgkQsoi1X/+c IsG7Lg/+JO5Xx1J/OAEBlAdC5MHRtdJVoYorTf91RrYG3eFJcxMF8EjoKbwFUL+Q NzQ6bpzZx7QUHKybUCJD9h2OYBz1y5gUllfw8nbffxncrlWLuIEuuFah9pJQSz1P WQD0g8KFCpW0atLhAaEYJEdU6eABOL53une4H3NShRUZ0UR5Mj3hAWNUuq2GL+QA VmA1Riz/w8l3ynOucuexpefC+s4UMn1kel4PYVRQkD81UFn5Qn/OtwNbabJwSA2P XyvQHcEEsKbdsd7hYyxLB1JgPRtp83qLI7uclQofJlFpaxPN/1apjaw049IX1akY OZOGaUWIG/xyXd9zh7mwHFf37bvjwLEzASEyKKA4btO/Lsql8zpUmxuOkN6/xYoo 5fRVYLle1lXg2l1Pe55Igu65Z/n+zeWq1oxi3WA1zIOFyVOzR6Jp6g4g4u7X7iBO 1HbPca1foLtfdEL47/55ZyikIi4Z1Mu7v5gZDZnwdtRB2oklj1VyWsjFZzPNRo7P UJY93Ldmjgg26eDukMQNYQGcPXb4+7eo90C9KkaDoWP2ykyWiStmDBZviYrkSp0j 8c1VfdvnieL9maPHq5gH8SyzSK1Q9Z7J1zptSe6+7xrhd3cc3AlJbLvP1EBwU5fX ZfF4M4f+2H72QR8ATh4akixRJ9FZs64YoRKKYWxVvTiOd5GCCa0= =CIIC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xgxcetYBA/qMp0pW--