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charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 09:02:05AM -0700, Evan Green wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 9:25 PM Charlie Jenkins wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 08:36:33AM +0100, Conor Dooley wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 08:34:05PM -0700, Charlie Jenkins wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2024 at 12:40:26AM +0100, Conor Dooley wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 02:31:42PM -0700, Charlie Jenkins wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 10:27:47PM +0100, Conor Dooley wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 01:48:46PM -0700, Charlie Jenkins wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 07:47:48PM +0100, Conor Dooley wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 10:12:20AM -0700, Charlie Jenkins wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is already falling back on the boot CPU, but that is not a solution > > > > > > > > > > that scales. Even though all systems currently have homogenous > > > > > > > > > > marchid/mvendorid I am hesitant to assert that all systems are > > > > > > > > > > homogenous without providing an option to override this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are already is an option. Use the non-deprecated property in your > > > > > > > > > new system for describing what extesions you support. We don't need to > > > > > > > > > add any more properties (for now at least). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue is that it is not possible to know which vendor extensions are > > > > > > > > associated with a vendor. That requires a global namespace where each > > > > > > > > extension can be looked up in a table. I have opted to have a > > > > > > > > vendor-specific namespace so that vendors don't have to worry about > > > > > > > > stepping on other vendor's toes (or the other way around). In order to > > > > > > > > support that, the vendorid of the hart needs to be known prior. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, I think you're mixing up something like hwprobe and having > > > > > > > namespaces there with needing namespacing on the devicetree probing side > > > > > > > too. You don't need any vendor namespacing, it's perfectly fine (IMO) > > > > > > > for a vendor to implement someone else's extension and I think we should > > > > > > > allow probing any vendors extension on any CPU. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not mixing it up. Sure a vendor can implement somebody else's > > > > > > extension, they just need to add it to their namespace too. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't mean that you were mixing up how your implementation worked, my > > > > > point was that you're mixing up the hwprobe stuff which may need > > > > > namespacing for $a{b,p}i_reason and probing from DT which does not. > > > > > I don't think that the kernel should need to be changed at all if > > > > > someone shows up and implements another vendor's extension - we already > > > > > have far too many kernel changes required to display support for > > > > > extensions and I don't welcome potential for more. > > > > > > > > Yes I understand where you are coming from. We do not want it to require > > > > very many changes to add an extension. With this framework, there are > > > > the same number of changes to add a vendor extension as there is to add > > > > a standard extension. > > > > > > No, it is actually subtly different. Even if the kernel already supports > > > the extension, it needs to be patched for each vendor > > > > > > > There is the upfront cost of creating the struct > > > > for the first vendor extension from a vendor, but after that the > > > > extension only needs to be added to the associated vendor's file (I am > > > > extracting this out to a vendor file in the next version). This is also > > > > a very easy task since the fields from a different vendor can be copied > > > > and adapted. > > > > > > > > > Another thing I just thought of was systems where the SoC vendor > > > > > implements some extension that gets communicated in the ISA string but > > > > > is not the vendor in mvendorid in their various CPUs. I wouldn't want to > > > > > see several different entries in structs (or several different hwprobe > > > > > keys, but that's another story) for this situation because you're only > > > > > allowing probing what's in the struct matching the vendorid. > > > > > > > > Since the isa string is a per-hart field, the vendor associated with the > > > > hart will be used. > > > > > > I don't know if you just didn't really read what I said or didn't > > > understand it, but this response doesn't address my comment. > > > > I read what you said! This question seemed to me as another variant of > > "what happens when one vendor implements an extension from a different > > vendor", and since we already discussed that I was trying to figure out > > what you were actually asking. > > > > > Consider SoC vendor S buys CPUs from vendors A & B and asks both of them > > > to implement Xsjam. The CPUs are have the vendorid of either A or B, > > > depending on who made it. This scenario should not result in two > > > different hwprobe keys nor two different in-kernel riscv_has_vendor_ext() > > > checks to see if the extension is supported. *If* the extension is vendor > > > namespaced, it should be to the SoC vendor whose extension it is, not > > > the individual CPU vendors that implemented it. > > > > > > Additionally, consider that CPUs from both vendors are in the same SoC > > > and all CPUs support Xsjam. Linux only supports homogeneous extensions > > > so we should be able to detect that all CPUs support the extension and > > > use it in a driver etc, but that's either not going to work (or be > > > difficult to orchestrate) with different mappings per CPU vendor. I saw > > > your v2 cover letter, in which you said: > > > Only patch vendor extension if all harts are associated with the same > > > vendor. This is the best chance the kernel has for working properly if > > > there are multiple vendors. > > > I don't think that level of paranoia is required: if firmware tells us > > > that an extension is supported, then we can trust that those extensions > > > have been implemented correctly. If the fear of implementation bugs is > > > what is driving the namespacing that you've gone for, I don't think that > > > it is required and we can simplify things, with the per-vendor structs > > > being the vendor of the extension (so SoC vendor S in my example), not > > > A and B who are the vendors of the CPU IP. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Conor. > > > > > > > Thank you for expanding upon this idea further. This solution of > > indexing the extensions based on the vendor who proposed them does make > > a lot of sense. There are some key differences here of note. When > > vendors are able to mix vendor extensions, defining a bitmask that > > contains all of the vendor extensions gets a bit messier. I see two > > possible solutions. > > > > 1. Vendor keys cannot overlap between vendors. A set bit in the bitmask > > is associated with exactly one extension. > > > > 2. Vendor keys can overlap between vendors. There is a vendor bitmask > > per vendor. When setting/checking a vendor extension, first index into > > the vendor extension bitmask with the vendor associated with the > > extension and then with the key of the vendor extension. > > > > A third option would be to use the standard extension framework. This > > causes the standard extension list to become populated with extensions > > that most harts will never implement so I am opposed to that. > > > > This problem carries over into hwprobe since the schemes proposed by > > Evan and I both rely on the mvendorid of harts associated with the > > cpumask. To have this level of support in hwprobe for SoCs with a mix of > > vendors but the same extensions I again see two options: > > > > 1. Vendor keys cannot overlap between vendors. A set bit in the bitmask > > is associated with exactly one extension. This bitmask would be returned > > by the vendor extension hwprobe key. > > > > 2. Vendor keys can overlap between vendors. There is an hwprobe key per > > vendor. Automatic resolution of the vendor doesn't work because the > > vendor-specific feature being requested (extensions in the case) may be > > of a vendor that is different than the hart's vendor, in otherwords > > there are two variables necessary: the vendor and a way to ask hwprobe > > for a list of the vendor extensions. With hwprobe there is only the > > "key" that can be used to encode these variables simultaneously. We > > could have something like a HWPROBE_THEAD_EXT_0 key that would return > > all thead vendor extensions supported by the harts corresponding to the > > cpumask. > > I was a big proponent of the vendor namespacing in hwprobe, as I liked > the tidiness of it, and felt it could handle most cases (including > mix-n-matching multiple mvendorids in a single SoC). However my > balloon lost its air after chatting with Palmer, as there's one case > it really can't handle: white labeling. This is where I buy a THead > (for instance) CPU for my SoC, including all its vendor extensions, > and do nothing but change the mvendorid to my own. If this is a thing, > then the vendor extensions basically have to be a single global > namespace in hwprobe (sigh). > > I do like Charlie's idea of at least letting vendors allocate a key at > a time, eg HWPROBE_THEAD_EXT_0, rather than racing to allocate a bit > at a time in a key like HWPROBE_VENDOR_EXT_0. That gives it some > semblance of organization, and still gives us a chance of a > cleanup/deprecation path for vendors that stop producing chips. > -Evan Okay I will send a v3 following that method! - Charlie From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BF9BC4345F for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 22:03:17 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post: List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References: Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: 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m2-20020a170902db0200b001e859232f60mr492056plx.18.1713391383352; Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ghost ([50.145.13.30]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w17-20020a1709027b9100b001e3e222072esm126821pll.53.2024.04.17.15.03.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:02:59 -0700 From: Charlie Jenkins To: Evan Green Cc: Conor Dooley , Conor Dooley , Rob Herring , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Paul Walmsley , Palmer Dabbelt , Albert Ou , Guo Ren , Conor Dooley , Chen-Yu Tsai , Jernej Skrabec , Samuel Holland , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl=E9ment_L=E9ger?= , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Palmer Dabbelt , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-sunxi@lists.linux.dev, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 02/19] riscv: cpufeature: Fix thead vector hwcap removal Message-ID: References: <20240412-eastcoast-disparity-9c9e7d178df5@spud> <20240412-chemist-haunt-0a30a8f280ca@spud> <20240413-sharper-unlivable-5a65660b19e2@spud> <20240416-husband-flavored-96c1dad58b6e@wendy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20240417_150309_629310_24E0539D X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 72.89 ) X-BeenThere: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org T24gV2VkLCBBcHIgMTcsIDIwMjQgYXQgMDk6MDI6MDVBTSAtMDcwMCwgRXZhbiBHcmVlbiB3cm90 ZToKPiBPbiBUdWUsIEFwciAxNiwgMjAyNCBhdCA5OjI14oCvUE0gQ2hhcmxpZSBKZW5raW5zIDxj aGFybGllQHJpdm9zaW5jLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gPgo+ID4gT24gVHVlLCBBcHIgMTYsIDIwMjQg 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by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w17-20020a1709027b9100b001e3e222072esm126821pll.53.2024.04.17.15.03.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 15:02:59 -0700 From: Charlie Jenkins To: Evan Green Cc: Conor Dooley , Conor Dooley , Rob Herring , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Paul Walmsley , Palmer Dabbelt , Albert Ou , Guo Ren , Conor Dooley , Chen-Yu Tsai , Jernej Skrabec , Samuel Holland , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl=E9ment_L=E9ger?= , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Palmer Dabbelt , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-sunxi@lists.linux.dev, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 02/19] riscv: cpufeature: Fix thead vector hwcap removal Message-ID: References: <20240412-eastcoast-disparity-9c9e7d178df5@spud> <20240412-chemist-haunt-0a30a8f280ca@spud> 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