From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-pj1-f73.google.com (mail-pj1-f73.google.com [209.85.216.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2F3924DCE9 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2025 16:22:52 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.216.73 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757953374; cv=none; b=b8FSHCy/qvNM9dV3PlO08tldbEUknYL+CyayRZKGx/jbrR+WSSwb3k2e18jvCJaJ2p4a4V+OKlBZ59xE+ZvFPQufL1i4okwo/ROQyuhaP+lCgcSdtLtKJp+Iggxy126XSVylmM81b79GUlv5TZ6ZopyLX0EX0Wi44j/zR+gzK+k= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1757953374; c=relaxed/simple; bh=ckALgmS9JU4cyB+fW+6jYbccuY9CRtj5qXaUIM5eQS0=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=tUzlI4Nad/XuWYu6kfeJNC7XMPtlkY7JlZEH0b6CqFchwVFrKphDRjGj9J77nsZv72/syhSBFdPLx6js15X6cIWu6wy+MmDGrlcDcnwNCc7FfNTeHumAlVMJmVvogzQxBxzXfD0IHkoPb5U/xxobycPhkS8DENBoRx57GRTg7t4= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=flex--seanjc.bounces.google.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b=Nl2TW7nI; arc=none smtp.client-ip=209.85.216.73 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=google.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=flex--seanjc.bounces.google.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com header.i=@google.com header.b="Nl2TW7nI" Received: by mail-pj1-f73.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-32e43b0f038so974601a91.0 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2025 09:22:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1757953372; x=1758558172; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ckALgmS9JU4cyB+fW+6jYbccuY9CRtj5qXaUIM5eQS0=; b=Nl2TW7nIHPm5aguwqvxS1aD3566baaLYAejy4zk8RvMckCmksUcqJgIs7VZc3nZZu8 GaB8QAZvVr0n2gOPgTmGSwnvkbpLb/A7myl3LNRfny9htmpSu1rQUvYZfwW5M56Xl2XZ foIJBLnn6mPd2f77YUzirvV4pAnyNFaIg5SE3Hmb6Gx+Z5dQdLBEm5rNC6G8XhLmIbxR e1HNevo/m8f8svl1bCnEYzmNnG6tpX9RIydncpe2VEkHBDFm1wIzV3k7HBFE7ZjpEJHN cbWPUfDfOYVN40k0SlYa7Er5m1U2eM7pG9OdAdLvpXp84Jw2yiQ0S7lG133lULDn4xKO 6gfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1757953372; x=1758558172; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ckALgmS9JU4cyB+fW+6jYbccuY9CRtj5qXaUIM5eQS0=; b=dHWWSy9RCFd0+SOCraTCqfn3SQ6WhS1uDiofC4CuAG7JRn+rPZO2unNhRdpo+blJOT 7q+40bYTFCMabg1ExnDv8REc3tIDHxiUHEZb0JHp7+CYLya9VidTn2nKhZUaC4RnWlt9 +ufJgB5OU/2ytxZv0SJZr3xCyDj30gEmbnuCu16U2GrV1KJMgbi1z9d7qXDfhlzdGHW2 U4tKwJ/xzOASR2K0rKsZqWe68F1GXxDzOBBHgL+C+EwZ/5Laj08M86A10bmZ0l8wSP6a qwHaVSf7UyBZ3Twz83jtWtTKHsHiQYlu+Qq7VdSOhTa8pTPMxkhf362ywykq1zM9rKpt j5mg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUkwsfUOgWmQvT2TaXs1y/vVMwLct1xMwBZMJzaappub2NYG5TXec/dUCgGx1XFDCBEJqSgEb5z1iHPdv4=@vger.kernel.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzcZELqBsNW0ht8K6EMNmX4n3LqtAlvpAhTAzfjeTYKGsmides1 kMnciFtUjQPbtqyNJXt2TgdGebI4V9CruVxo6+kNLDQhmJaszmJSq7Y8r7FnUzD5lbu5VA35xJZ 0j2LuvA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFIKggxQ6LG8cRpNraYYyVtBUxnQDaC6/BZN4rVOPFXmkRI64p0YHer2xSH/vJbTDmNw1+WQAufXNg= X-Received: from pjbst15.prod.google.com ([2002:a17:90b:1fcf:b0:327:b430:11ad]) (user=seanjc job=prod-delivery.src-stubby-dispatcher) by 2002:a17:90b:2d8a:b0:32e:7270:94aa with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-32e72709635mr3542385a91.19.1757953372157; Mon, 15 Sep 2025 09:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2025 09:22:50 -0700 In-Reply-To: <4iceeja4kbnb4cir26kme6z6wabnnyu6trc2qo7ye7po65wemr@i2tyg7cfq54x> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <4iceeja4kbnb4cir26kme6z6wabnnyu6trc2qo7ye7po65wemr@i2tyg7cfq54x> Message-ID: Subject: Re: Commit Links [was: Linux 6.17-rc5] From: Sean Christopherson To: "Uwe =?utf-8?Q?Kleine-K=C3=B6nig?=" Cc: Linus Torvalds , Jiri Slaby , Linux Kernel Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 15, 2025, Uwe Kleine-K=C3=B6nig wrote: > Hello Linus, >=20 > On Fri, Sep 12, 2025 at 08:24:06AM +0200, Jiri Slaby wrote: > > On 08. 09. 25, 0:25, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > So please: don't add useless information to commits in general, but i= n > > > _particular_ don't add "Link:" tags that only point back to the > > > original submission email. Yes, we have tooling that does it > > > automatically, but tooling should not be used to increase the human > > > burden. Tooling should _help_, not hurt. > >=20 > > I disagree. In a bug-reporter role, I use these Links pointing to the > > patches every time. So unless there is a way (I did not find one), they= are > > very useful. > >=20 > > My use case is (mostly) dig out the thread/patch (grep Link, and b4 or > > https://lore.kernel.org/all -> raw) and reply to it as it causes some i= ssue. > >=20 > > In a backporter role, I use the Links to look at the thread to see the > > _whole_ patchset instead of guess work from the linear commit log. >=20 > +1, after a bisection I typically lookup the thread, too, to have my > regression report in the right thread. IMHO this is really useful > because the next person hitting the same problem (maybe?) finds my > report easily. So for me the Link trailer is useful, too. I described several other scenarios where the source/submitted link is usef= ul last time this came up[*], along with the same proposal to have a dedicated trailer so that people that don't want to risk exploring what might be a de= ad end can more easily ignore that specific link. [*] https://lore.kernel.org/all/Z-2XVMOJXUjVYXV0@google.com > > > Make the links be something *useful*. Make them point to the report > > > for the bug that was the cause of the commit. Make them point to the > > > discussion that explains the impetus for the commit. But do *not* > > > mindlessly just use tooling to create a link that doesn't add anythin= g > > > that isn't already right there in the commit. > > >=20 > > > I realize that people think the link makes the commit look more "real= " > > > or whatever. And I've heard people claim that discussion happens late= r > > > in the thread that the link points to. Neither of those are actually > > > true. When bugs happen, people don't go to the original emailed patch > > > to talk about them. Much of the time the reporter can't even tell > > > which patch caused it - and if they did bisect it, we already have th= e > > > information - there's no value add in going back to the original > > > emailed patch. >=20 > The true fact is probably that *most* people don't go back to the email > thread to reply there (either because the breaking commit isn't known > yet or they just start a new thread). Yes, the few who do can probably > easily lookup the thread on lore, but clicking on a link is easier (and > makes sure you find the version of the patch that was applied and not > an earlier version). (Or a later version that the maintainer failed to > notice before applying an earlier version.) >=20 > > > So if a link doesn't have any extra relevant information in it, just > > > don't add it at all in some misguided hope that tomorrow it will be > > > useful. > > >=20 > > > Make "Link:" tags be something to celebrate, not something to curse > > > because they are worthless and waste peoples time. >=20 > What will you do if a question arises on a commit without a Link: > trailer? I guess you will lookup the shortlog on lore? > If the Link trailer was skipped because there is no relevant discussion > in the thread that resulted in application of the patch, you will still > look at it, just taking more time to eventually find it. So while I > agree this is a dead end with and without Link: most of the time, not > adding the Link: doesn't prevent you exploring that dead end, but only > results in more effort to find it.