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From: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	 Shuah Khan <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>,
	 Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	 Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	x86@kernel.org,  "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@redhat.com>,
	Juergen Gross <jgross@suse.com>,
	 Boris Ostrovsky <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
	Paul Durrant <paul@xen.org>,  Jonathan Cameron <jic23@kernel.org>,
	Sascha Bischoff <Sascha.Bischoff@arm.com>,
	 Marc Zyngier <maz@kernel.org>, Joey Gouly <joey.gouly@arm.com>,
	Jack Allister <jalliste@amazon.com>,
	 Dongli Zhang <dongli.zhang@oracle.com>,
	joe.jin@oracle.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	 linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	 xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 17/36] KVM: x86: Allow KVM master clock mode when TSCs are offset from each other
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2026 07:33:39 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ansywxh0VX5rtfWc@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ansuqrD2KwFuLWbV@google.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2026, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2026, David Woodhouse wrote:
> > On Mon, 2026-08-10 at 13:56 -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > >  
> > > > > To allow different offsets, KVM would need to track a per-vCPU offset to the
> > > > > master clock and apply that in kvm_guest_time_update() (and maybe other places?).
> > > > > Which is doable, but it's not clear to me why we'd want to support that (though
> > > > > I haven't fully processed the back half ot his series, so it's very possible I'm
> > > > > missing something obvious).
> > > > 
> > > > Because I want to reduce the number of cases where we have to fall back
> > > > to non-masterclock mode. Especially the ones which are driven by
> > > > *guests* rather than weird choices on the VMM's part.
> > > 
> > > But why though?  What is the harm to the host or guest?  E.g. does it make it more
> > > difficult to accurately migrate the VM?  I'm not opposed to allowing master-clock
> > > mode with diverging offsets, just trying to understand why it matters.
> > 
> > Accurate migration without masterclock is hard, yes. The
> > KVM_SET_CLOCK_GUEST thing relies on it (because the principle is that
> > you get the *TSC* right, then the KVM clock is just a fixed
> > mathematical function of that).
> > 
> > That *shouldn't* be difficult with offsets between vCPUs. Just use the
> > TSC of vCPU0 as the reference for KVM_SET_CLOCK_GUEST and let the
> > others just have their offset from that.
> 
> Yeah, my only (quite mild) concern is that we would introduce fragility by adding
> yet another variable that needs to be accounted for, but AFAICT it's literally
> just the tsc_timestamp in the shared data structure that consumes the per-vCPU
> offset.

Actually, why are KVM_{G,S}ET_CLOCK_GUEST vCPU-scoped?  Per the documentation,
the API "Sets the KVM clock (for the whole VM) in terms of the vCPU TSC".  If
the APIs are VM-scoped instead of vCPU-scoped, then KVM can simply save/restore
what's in the per-VM masterclock state, no?

That would also help address my concerns about sanity checking the TSC frequency
against the kvmclock frequency, as the APIs are much more blatantly about saving
and restoring masterclock state.  For whatever reason, it feels more natural for
me to say that KVM_SET_CLOCK_GUEST will fail if the target frequency doesn't
(fuzzily?) match the frequency at which the masterclock is already configured.
Probably because use_master_clock directly gates that information?  Whereas the
vCPU's frequency is independently configured but obviously influences masterclock
mode.

  reply	other threads:[~2026-08-11 14:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-07-28 14:39 [PATCH v7 00/36] Cleaning up the KVM clock mess David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 01/36] KVM: x86: Improve accuracy of KVM clock when TSC scaling is in force David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 02/36] KVM: x86: Explicitly disable TSC scaling without CONSTANT_TSC David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 03/36] KVM: x86: Activate master clock immediately on vCPU creation David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:17   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 04/36] KVM: x86: Avoid NTP frequency skew for KVM clock on 32-bit host David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 05/36] KVM: x86: Fold __get_kvmclock() into get_kvmclock() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 23:06   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 06/36] KVM: x86: Drop CPU pinning in get_kvmclock() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 07/36] KVM: x86: Restructure get_kvmclock() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:11   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 23:02     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 23:04   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 08/36] KVM: x86: Fix KVM clock precision in get_kvmclock() with TSC scaling David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 09/36] KVM: x86: Use get_kvmclock() in kvm_get_wall_clock_epoch() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 10/36] KVM: x86: Fix compute_guest_tsc() to handle negative time deltas David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 11/36] KVM: x86: Restructure kvm_guest_time_update() for TSC upscaling David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:11   ` sashiko-bot
2026-08-04  1:26   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 12/36] KVM: x86: Simplify and comment kvm_get_time_scale() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 13/36] KVM: x86: Remove implicit rdtsc() from kvm_compute_l1_tsc_offset() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 14/36] KVM: x86: Improve synchronization in kvm_synchronize_tsc() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:08   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 15/36] KVM: x86: Kill last_tsc_{nsec,write,offset} fields David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:09   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 16/36] KVM: x86: Replace nr_vcpus_matched_tsc count with all_vcpus_matched_tsc bool David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 17/36] KVM: x86: Allow KVM master clock mode when TSCs are offset from each other David Woodhouse
2026-08-10 17:47   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-10 18:20     ` David Woodhouse
2026-08-10 20:56       ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-10 21:05         ` David Woodhouse
2026-08-11 14:16           ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-11 14:33             ` Sean Christopherson [this message]
2026-08-11 15:05               ` David Woodhouse
2026-08-11 16:40                 ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-11 17:18                   ` David Woodhouse
2026-08-11 17:28                     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-11 17:32                       ` David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 18/36] KVM: x86: Factor out kvm_use_master_clock() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:39 ` [PATCH v7 19/36] KVM: x86: Avoid gratuitous global clock updates David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 20/36] KVM: x86/xen: Prevent runstate times from becoming negative David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:15   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 21/36] KVM: x86: Avoid redundant masterclock updates from multiple vCPUs David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:23   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 22/36] KVM: x86: Remove runtime Xen TSC frequency CPUID update David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:18   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 23/36] KVM: x86: Re-synchronize TSC after KVM_SET_TSC_KHZ David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:19   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 24/36] KVM: x86: Use ktime_get_snapshot_id() for master clock David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:21   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 22:59     ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 25/36] KVM: x86: Compute kvmclock base without pvclock_gtod_data David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 26/36] KVM: x86: Cache host vclock_mode for masterclock eligibility checks David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:26   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 27/36] KVM: x86: Remove pvclock_gtod_data and private timekeeping code David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:25   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 28/36] KVM: x86: Activate master clock from kvm_arch_init_vm() David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:31   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 29/36] UAPI: x86: Move pvclock-abi to UAPI for x86 platforms David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 30/36] KVM: selftests: Use UAPI pvclock-abi.h in xen_shinfo_test David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 31/36] KVM: x86: Add KVM_[GS]ET_CLOCK_GUEST for accurate KVM clock migration David Woodhouse
2026-07-31 23:24   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-01  8:07     ` David Woodhouse
2026-08-04 23:38       ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-05  9:26         ` David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 32/36] KVM: x86: Add KVM_VCPU_TSC_SCALE and fix the documentation on TSC migration David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:26   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 33/36] KVM: selftests: Add KVM/PV clock selftest to prove timer correction David Woodhouse
2026-07-31 23:32   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 34/36] KVM: selftests: Add master clock offset test David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:22   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-31 23:38   ` Sean Christopherson
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 35/36] KVM: selftests: Add Xen/generic CPUID timing leaf test David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 15:23   ` sashiko-bot
2026-07-28 14:40 ` [PATCH v7 36/36] KVM: selftests: Add Xen runstate migration test David Woodhouse
2026-07-28 23:18 ` [PATCH v7 00/36] Cleaning up the KVM clock mess Sean Christopherson
2026-07-29 10:42   ` David Woodhouse
2026-08-10 16:42 ` Sean Christopherson
2026-08-10 16:56   ` David Woodhouse

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