From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-alma10-1.taild15c8.ts.net [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD4074E36E5 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2026 19:34:47 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1789673695; cv=none; b=XkFE9bsI+WwyZ9xFz52CcN0pMfE3AAKqWrblkSQkIiRKGMG5G2KjFKcPlO05CLaIXOM9JySLAoffv8hmhNMvGJpXRJufIDj901QjILayDOmg2+2u6E87tv/veijGLssN2/rL760kCc5zB6TJXDV7F2CFYv4updAqu0W5junrHvo= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1789673695; c=relaxed/simple; bh=KB1M9WTGJEcaOktkB7ayC3kM2VOAlY8xGL3EfcDDBMM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=ixVwGcTaMJRO1e2hhCy3+WWoKuDWJq/Rzb/dQue9NUxWWCVxBToiTYLDLZMz9ndTMpcIsdhFwKQeGpV2a4+BMYvd7YUMkkpsobFeGlvO/n17vMhWe2JM1sIWZM/OgYdlW9h6/EpFEbjxRs+AJ0/INwG1tZCM709vtNGlH00hsQA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=fOEvEMLO; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="fOEvEMLO" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C536F1F00A1A; Thu, 17 Sep 2026 19:34:46 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1789673687; bh=WCnh+ZmVGpyT6SYCrt4Ay+Z9OuzX31U0BUiTfB6sVN4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=fOEvEMLO7AosAoA/oX7Xunzpb4eTBBTlxqeP3MK21oIp+L+2xou/kSGvbwKYF3Znd pTQlAmxwMKbmHJh7DhKiodJWqTXgBye2sQmXx7RM8iQv/bWN28BMJrx9AkbtdRUvtp Z0Ad4bHkv8yNadC31yhfT0MRcRXM2Jx+wkLPTAHUMVEfa8M3QztNJJHWU4k5O/VYoV 3b6TuHqbqO1uFkNuxJb76M5YLx2SOrDHZJBeVzkP9UrgAUME9pCJzTCrK0IWjAmcun bQDM5/HgBqHkMoTfOkNID0ud7IMwv5OnMcf/LSiGpiMVz896PitBbbXMISOmHP8cF+ iY1vX1vtFPXvg== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2026 21:34:44 +0200 From: Alejandro Colomar To: astian Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , linux-man Subject: Re: ioperm(2): confusing terminology Message-ID: References: Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ioporkhzmkrbopqc" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --ioporkhzmkrbopqc Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: astian Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , linux-man Subject: Re: ioperm(2): confusing terminology Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Hi astian, > Date: 2026-09-17 19:09:41+0000 > From: astian > [...] > > I don't know how you read .md or .rst, but I read them in the terminal, > > usually with less(1), which doesn't reflow them. >=20 > But you read the rendered manpage, the output of running groff (and co.) > on the manpage source, right? If you were to read manpage sources with > less in the terminal there wouldn't be reflowing either, naturally. >=20 > The point I was making is that newlines in groff_man pages did not seem > to be more semantic than those in adoc/md/rst/whatever. Upon rendering, > paragraph lines are reflowed. After Robinson's explanation I can see 1 > bit of meaning to them (sentence delimiters). Yeah, if we used it exclusively as source for formatted manual pages --just like man(7) is used now--, then I'd be fine reading the formatted pages. However, as you said in another email, that would delete the unique advantage of .md/.rst, and the source would read as bad as man(7) source (IMO, worse, because the formatting macros would be replaced by weird pubctuation, which is more difficult to control --as we've seen in a recent mail too--). I believe kernel maintainers would run away fro .rst if they used semantic newlines and thus had to format them to read them nicely. > > Is there any program for reading these in the terminal reflowed? >=20 > I guess there are although I don't personally use one (of course, that's > the point of these "light markup" formats: they mostly look like plain > text so you don't much need a renderer). For example, there are plenty > of tools to convert these formats to HTML which can then be viewed in a > terminal browser. Or one could use pandoc to convert them to *roff > and... haha ;). Yeah, it ain't going to work. Luckily, we've got man(7). :-) Have a lovely night! Alex --=20 --ioporkhzmkrbopqc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEES7Jt9u9GbmlWADAi64mZXMKQwqkFAmqsQM4ACgkQ64mZXMKQ wqncjg//UzaY4ZE8f04/sRpa0rMvJSSENr8+S/urILos1YC1jxGj0ZsCgiwww8B9 VwfClbH/VoU+g4uLh2c6/xyzULEZUDF3YXgc6tQjuwVUWICU8qr4Cd8zQ6R0OsUw 7cCeiy55+QwZ101//XjpPa9a1hzH4LIgRfZWxoyDktV+E+R0cF6KuubGC8TIWd7Q IAV8F0noCtjOZqIAk17kE4mqJkmvLsSxmxI/VXHHAsHipswpCVjHfOc35cN/XZts xp/9w2OTRFpZwaHQGeffdiJAjrUWtsoa/qrt923wWnrbaIl6muzQkoekUz/fL5g+ BVGLsCWyiw1rIGKcMZrqbVoxv4uVBh5e1xDdxYpjRSTjK3tChzKcR71IjadvgzhG 8VZcCx3vhBvZbe3qAGwzklK7S0/egG9WXJk5kihzOddrMno2tX/bwCI6q+9qxLfX B0uw45lsK7ja3FU1Owi+MPZPfTdeVAuCzlhTYJkDhdLk3hx8YS7Yg9JrshQ1Jpre dIjyMFh14HDYPszf+UdVGxAErHVQsCZYcuZLYBnZNI6rMiUVw6CBVjxWFJwp1qVD LsT+srnAWpg9/wqk3Pt5k/W6ULpnrqjWsKNVo4po1PHfjkFN461EdPg8MrYJGz5d FOYPM0MzSA7TyvTT4WZ4cYfjZm+PM5OMgOoh/4fxshByIXDexpk= =M+CX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ioporkhzmkrbopqc--