Re: Distributions with out-of-the-box Reiser4 support?

[michael chang <thenewme91@gmail.com>]

On 8/10/05, David Masover <ninja@slaphack.com> wrote:
> michael chang wrote:
> > LILO has to be reinstalled every
> > single time you add or remove a kernel, move a partition, resize a
> > partition, etc. etc.; because it hard links to the kernel images.  In
> 
> Not a big deal at all.  Just add "lilo" to your install script.  You do
> have one, don't you?

Yes, but it's autogenerated by kernel-package/fakeroot, and then
tacked into the .deb file that generates.

For example:
config: make menuconfig/xconfig/gconfig/whatever
[optional, edit Makefile to edit revision append, kernel-package uses
a command argument in the next command to do a similar task]: nano
Makefile
make package: fakeroot make-kpkg kernel_image
install package: sudo dpkg -i ../kernel-package-<whatever>.deb
[GRUB is updated automatically, and LILO is too, usually, depending on
your system]
reboot.

Problem?  I repartition alot -- and reinstalling LILO is a pain.  Not
to mention I like booting floppy disk images -- which I use GRUB
for... so I figure I'll do thing my way -- you do things your way. 
Life's easier that way.  ^^

> I also like how Lilo can have a boot menu (entirely preconfigured, but
> it's there) that only shows up if you hold a key during boot (think it's

Except I don't know the command that automatically updates this
(update-grub in debian for GRUB).

> alt).  Grub, you usually have to have the menu show up, then pick a
> default within a timeout, and 99% of my boots, I want the default.  It

edit the /boot/grub/menu.lst file -- there should be a timeout line;
you can change this to 2 if you want [as soon as you press a key, the
timeout cancels]  if /boot is a seperate partition, this becomes
/boot/boot/grub/menu.lst [probably because it checks the /boot/grub
folder in the partition, regardless of where this gets mounted in the
filesystem]

> > this case, I'd rather stick with GRUB, and be forced to put /boot on a
> > 10-15 MB ext2 partition.
> 
> But, you might want more than that.  For instance, the RIP PXE rescue
> system (for booting off a network) can easily be intsalled locally as a
> GRUB menu option, but the ramdisk is 28 megs -- and that's without the
> kernel.

So I resize the partition.  Big deal.  I do that all the time.  I'll
shave off a meg off my FAT partition, or something.

> All the more reason, Hans, to have bitmaps not be preloaded on mount --
> in a situation like this, you want a Reiser4 partition for maybe 5
> seconds or less most of the time, but my partition takes 15-20 seconds
> unless I use "dont_load_bitmap" from an initrd.

So wouldn't the solution be not to mount it for five seconds and then
umount it?  That sounds very illogical... why do you want to do that?

> > Well, debian's latest installer, debian-installer, [sarge] can bring
> > you into a partition manager if you wish to install on a ReiserFS
> > [3.6], XFS, ext2, ext3, or various other partitions; or you can let it
> > autopartition (-- I haven't tried this, and have no intent on doing
> > so, because I handle my partitions somewhat oddly).  If you want
> > Reiser4, it seems like you have to get the mkfs tools onto a ISO or
> > boot image or something, as well as put in a Reiser4 kernel, and then
> > mkfs and mount the root partitions normally.
> 
> Still not fun, especially considering that if you're like me, you make
> mistakes on your first install, and your second -- some days, it may be
> my fifth install that's the one I keep.

*sigh* I think I went to sixth or eighth on my first machine --
although this machine is on it's second install of Windows XP and
Linux each -- both installs were used some time before being replaced.
 If you do it wrong ten times, but you can recover, you're okay,
generally, if you can do it right the first time on every machine
thereafter.  *shrugs*  Then again, Ubantu is supposed to be made to be
a really easy install so it won't go wrong, so if it ends up
supporting Reiser4 by default, then you can just pop in a CD, click a
few times or push a few buttons, and you're done.  *shrugs*

> > That said, root Reiser4s aren't support atm, afaik.
> 
> They are, if you can deal with manually creating/mounting them (not
> using the debian-installer partitioner), and compiling a custom kernel
> somehow during the install (before you reboot) -- Debian usually uses
> precompiled kernels.

I was referring to by Namesys... although that is true also.  I'd
think it'd make more sense, though, to have crucial bits on a
non-experimental filesystem [e.g. ReiserFS 3.6] in the meantime, and
then anything dynamic or replaceable on a Reiser4 partition; and since
I'll create that later, I have enough time to get a full system to
recomile a kernel on, etc. etc.

Personally, I've had to deal with compiling a kernel on a machine that
had a modem that worked in Windows but not in Linux [dial-up, at
that], so I had to download e.g. gcc, sources, and required packages
in Windows, and then move them to Linux, which was at a barebones
install.  Icky, but it worked, I suppose.  Although I don't want to
repeat that [thankfully, the machine's modem died, so I reinstalled
linux, and it now sports a Wireless USB dongle which I use NDISWrapper
(prebuilt modules) on] and I don't think anyone else does either.

> > If you want to go through the trouble, there is a mechanism you can
> > use to compile your own packages in debian -- I believe you can use
> > "apt-get source <packagename>" as a regular user to build "optimized"
> > copies of most of the packages on Debian -- or you can do an install
> > from source, and it will install in /usr/local or whatever, and
> > because of the way paths are setup, it will "override" your package.
> > [That can be confusing for dependencies though... although FC's RPM
> > madness is worse IIRC.]
> 
> It's nowhere near "emerge" on Gentoo.  For one thing, you can't easily
> set system-wide CFLAGS, and there's really no equivalent of USE flags,
> at least until we as a species figure out how to use a decent bytecode
> for everything, and compile-time optimization/configuration becomes a
> thing of the past.

That said, if memory serves me right, the sources obtained by emerge
on Gentoo are heavily patched so they'll work with emerge.  But this
isn't the place to be arguing about which is better: Gentoo or Debian
-- It's a place to talk about ReiserFS/Reiser4.  So I guess we should
get back onto that, yes?

OT: Just thought I'd mention that before the last stable release that
came out (Sarge) -- I believe the predecessor, Woody, was about 3
years old... [not to mention current sarge packages are rather ancient
due to a rigerous and lengthy testing process for Stable--I remember
seeing a Wine package from like 99 or 2002 in either Woody or
Sarge...] and I believe the names of it's releases are the names of
characters from Toy Story (geez...) -- I mean come on, "Potato",
"Woody", and "Sarge"?!?  Oh well... it could be worse, I suppose.

So, to date, we have yet to see any recently released operating
systems with native out-of-the-box root Reiser4 support, it seems...
*sigh* Oh well... I guess we won't see it until we see it in vanilla
kernel and/or when the recompressor and/or resizer are ready... or
someone takes an initiative.

-- 
~Mike
 - Just my two cents
 - No man is an island, and no man is unable.