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From: Sandipan Das <sandipan.das@amd.com>
To: Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@gmail.com>
Cc: Puranjay Mohan <puranjay@kernel.org>,
	linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@kernel.org>,
	Namhyung Kim <namhyung@kernel.org>,
	Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
	Alexander Shishkin <alexander.shishkin@linux.intel.com>,
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@kernel.org>, Ian Rogers <irogers@google.com>,
	Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@intel.com>,
	James Clark <james.clark@linaro.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	x86@kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] perf/x86/amd/lbr: Freeze LBR on PMI only when kernel branches are recorded
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2026 11:47:30 +0530	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <b7456dbb-16fd-45b4-8742-e9ea3f896317@amd.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEf4BzY4FYFuT2iSU+fEApnKK4LjHe3i0Xpq_kd4rt4iDLK3XA@mail.gmail.com>

On 04-11-2026 00:39, Andrii Nakryiko wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2026 at 2:08 AM Sandipan Das <sandipan.das@amd.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 30-10-2026 01:42, Andrii Nakryiko wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2026 at 5:42 AM Puranjay Mohan <puranjay@kernel.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On CPUs with X86_FEATURE_AMD_LBR_PMC_FREEZE the LBR is always frozen on
>>>> PMI, so the branch stack ends before the IP and callchain, which are
>>>> taken when the NMI is delivered. IBS rejects branch-stack events, so
>>>> there is no precise alternative.
>>>>
>>>> The freeze only keeps the PMI handler's branches out of the stack, which
>>>> matters only when branches into the kernel are recorded; without it the
>>>> stack fills with the handler's own branches. A user-only filter does not
>>>> record them, and parts without the feature are never frozen (see commit
>>>> 598c2fafc06f ("perf/x86/amd/lbr: Use freeze based on availability")).
>>>>
>>>> Freeze unless the value written to LBR_SELECT, which is shared by all
>>>> events on the CPU, suppresses branches into the kernel.
>>>>
>>>> With perf record -e ex_ret_brn_tkn:u -j any,u on a Zen 5 part running
>>>> CPython, the function of the sampled IP differs from the function of
>>>> LBR[0].to in 84.3% of samples with the freeze and in 0.1% without it.
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Puranjay Mohan <puranjay@kernel.org>
>>>> ---
>>>>  arch/x86/events/amd/lbr.c | 9 +++++++--
>>>>  1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
>>>>
>>>> diff --git a/arch/x86/events/amd/lbr.c b/arch/x86/events/amd/lbr.c
>>>> index a55646fcb8465..7ec50380ac81d 100644
>>>> --- a/arch/x86/events/amd/lbr.c
>>>> +++ b/arch/x86/events/amd/lbr.c
>>>> @@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ void amd_pmu_lbr_sched_task(struct perf_event_pmu_context *pmu_ctx,
>>>>  void amd_pmu_lbr_enable_all(void)
>>>>  {
>>>>         struct cpu_hw_events *cpuc = this_cpu_ptr(&cpu_hw_events);
>>>> -       u64 lbr_select, dbg_ctl, dbg_extn_cfg;
>>>> +       u64 lbr_select = 0, dbg_ctl, dbg_extn_cfg;
>>>>
>>>>         if (!cpuc->lbr_users || !x86_pmu.lbr_nr)
>>>>                 return;
>>>> @@ -405,7 +405,12 @@ void amd_pmu_lbr_enable_all(void)
>>>>
>>>>         if (cpu_feature_enabled(X86_FEATURE_AMD_LBR_PMC_FREEZE)) {
>>>>                 rdmsrq(MSR_IA32_DEBUGCTLMSR, dbg_ctl);
>>>> -               wrmsrq(MSR_IA32_DEBUGCTLMSR, dbg_ctl | DEBUGCTLMSR_FREEZE_LBRS_ON_PMI);
>>>> +               /* Freeze unless the filter suppresses branches into the kernel */
>>>> +               if (lbr_select & LBR_KERNEL)
>>>
>>> On Intel CPU side, we reset this FREEZE bit in
>>> __intel_pmu_lbr_enable() if is_lbr_call_stack_bit_set(), with the
>>> comment "LBR callstack does not work well with FREEZE_LBRS_ON_PMI.".
>>> So this is not *exactly* what Intel side of things is doing, and I'm
>>> not sure I fully understand the differences, so hopefully someone more
>>> knowledgeable can help.
>>>
>>> But what Puranjay is trying to do here is to at least make a
>>> user-mode-only LBR and IP + callstack to be coherent (for PGO data
>>> collection, which we then use for user space app compilation), by
>>> disabling freezing for LBR.
>>>
>>> It doesn't seem like there is anything we can do on AMD hardware for
>>> when we want kernel-side LBR and precise IP to be in sync,
>>> unfortunately, but at least for user-space only case it would allow us
>>> to not plain disable freezing altogether at kernel boot time.
>>>
>>> Does this approach make sense?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the intent to keep the LBR and IP coherent is clear. However, my
>> concern is that this may end up dropping the branches preceding the
>> hotspots since a CPU might keep executing in userspace until the PMI
>> handler runs. I'm not sure about the effect that this is going to have
>> on PGO but what if we rely on a mechanism (UAPI + tool flags) to let
>> users explicitly request freeze?
>>
>> If there is an use-case where freeze helps, then the facility can be
>> explicitly requested.
> 
> heh, it's actually the other way, freezing **hurts** consistency
> here... should API requested freeze *opt-out*? because freezing, if
> supported by CPU, currently, is the default behavior not requiring
> opt-in. Or are you proposing to not enable freeze (even if
> cpu_feature_enabled(X86_FEATURE_AMD_LBR_PMC_FREEZE) is true), and then
> make user space request freezing with the new UAPI config flag?
> 

The latter. The default will be freeze disabled irrespective of the
CPUID feature bit.

> I'm not against expanding UAPI, but it feels like a very quirky little
> thing which also stems from AMD-only limitation of not supporting
> precise IP capture with LBR enabled
> 

I agree but it can live as an AMD-only flag in perf_event_attr.config2
or something similar and advertised through x86_pmu.format_attrs.

> 
> BTW, the alternative that internal customers actually requested
> initially instead of this was to completely disable freezing at start
> up through the kernel command line. Which seems like the worst
> outcome.
> 
> Thoughts? This all seems unfortunately messy, but hopefully we can
> figure out some non-intrusive but workable solution.
> 
>>
>>>
>>>> +                       dbg_ctl &= ~DEBUGCTLMSR_FREEZE_LBRS_ON_PMI;
>>>> +               else
>>>> +                       dbg_ctl |= DEBUGCTLMSR_FREEZE_LBRS_ON_PMI;
>>>> +               wrmsrq(MSR_IA32_DEBUGCTLMSR, dbg_ctl);
>>>>         }
>>>>
>>>>         rdmsrq(MSR_AMD_DBG_EXTN_CFG, dbg_extn_cfg);
>>>>
>>>> base-commit: 0f443787a7f6ae907975742680aac2600483eaf1
>>>> --
>>>> 2.53.0-Meta
>>>>
>>


  reply	other threads:[~2026-11-05  6:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-23 12:41 [PATCH] perf/x86/amd/lbr: Freeze LBR on PMI only when kernel branches are recorded Puranjay Mohan
2026-10-23 13:01 ` sashiko-bot
2026-10-23 15:18   ` Puranjay Mohan
2026-10-26 15:35 ` Sandipan Das
2026-10-29 20:12 ` Andrii Nakryiko
2026-11-02 10:08   ` Sandipan Das
2026-11-03 19:09     ` Andrii Nakryiko
2026-11-05  6:17       ` Sandipan Das [this message]
2026-11-05 16:58         ` Andrii Nakryiko
2026-11-05 17:03         ` [PATCH RFC] perf/x86/amd/lbr: Don't freeze the LBR on PMI for user-only filters Puranjay Mohan
2026-11-05 17:23           ` sashiko-bot
2026-11-06  1:07           ` Andrii Nakryiko
2026-11-10 19:05             ` Andrii Nakryiko
2026-11-12 11:09               ` Ravi Bangoria
2026-11-12 16:40                 ` Andrii Nakryiko

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