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Hi Guys,

 

Let me clarify my position about out of tree devices. Yes, I unders= tand that current QEMU politics is to have all the supported platforms insi= de QEMU source tree, but actually simulator core development, development of the devices standard library and developm= ent of virtual platforms are three different tasks. Moreover different peop= le interested in different parts of QEMU. QEMU core developers not interest= ed in supporting and maintaining tons of platforms available on the market. Virtual platform developers not= interested and usually don=A1=AFt have resources to merge their changes up= stream. So we have a lots of abandoned QEMU forks for different platforms. = For example we=A1=AFre now working on Raspberry Pi 4b implementation for our internal needs and we=A1=AFre planning to mer= ge it upstream. It=A1=AFs based on some QEMU fork author of which wasn=A1= =AFt able to complete it and commit upstream. And it can=A1=AFt be used wit= h later QEMU without some efforts to port it to newer QEMU version. Nobody supports and maintaining it since constant efforts ne= cessary to be in sync with QEMU mainline. So my opinion is that core develo= pment, core device library and virtual platform development should be divid= ed to make life easier for everybody. And this changes is first step to it.


 

About legal reasons and GPL violations. Possibility to make .so wit= h machine separately and load it without providing sources is a legal risk = and can=A1=AFt be completely solved with technical actions. Ban on external modules just makes it more difficult fo= r everybody to use not upstream code (including GPL violators, but not only= for them) and doesn=A1=AFt block ability to distribute full QEMU fork with= closed models without providing sources. So I don=A1=AFt see any reason to make technical limitations which actuall= y can=A1=AFt solve legal problem.

 

Best Regards, 

Anton

Software en= gineer from Auriga LLC


=A7=B0=A7=E4: Daniel P. B= errang=A8=A6 <berrange@redhat.com>
=A7=B0=A7=E4=A7=E1=A7=E2=A7=D1=A7=D3=A7=DD=A7=D6=A7=DF=A7=E0: 19 =A7= =DA=A7=F0=A7=DD=A7=F1 2022 =A7=D4. 19:25
=A7=AC=A7=E0=A7=DE=A7=E5: Drap Anton
=A7=AC=A7=E0=A7=E1=A7=DA=A7=F1: qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Drap, Anton =A7=B4=A7=D6=A7=DE=A7=D1: Re: [PATCH v2] Loading new machines and de= vices from external modules
 
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 04:59:22PM +0500, Drap= Anton wrote:
> From: "Drap, Anton" <anton.drap@auriga.com>
>
> There is no mechanism to load external machines and classes from modul= es
> at the moment. This patch is to add two parameters `add_machine` and > `add_modinfo` for it.
> `add_machine` is to add machines from external modules.
> `add_modinfo` is to add devices from external modules, needed for a ne= w
> machine, for example.
> Main aim is to have possibility to develop independent models and be a= ble
> to use it with mainline QEMU. It will help to make develop new models = of
> proprietary boards, simplify to use Qemu by hardware developers and ex= tend
> number of supporting boards and devices in QEMU. It will be easier for=
> small hardware manufacturers to use QEMU to develop their own board mo= dels
> and use them to shift left of FW/SW development.

IIUC, this is suggesting QEMU load pre-built .so files created from
non-upstream code, to arbitrarily extend QEMU's functionality. Such
.so files will inherantly have to be GPLd as they'll derive from
QEMU's internal APIs which are GPL. Given the proposed use case is
to emulate non-released proprietary hardware, I struggle to see how
you'll fullfill the requirements for GPL licensing of the loaded .so,
without revealing your proprietary hardware design to any who receive
the .so files.


More generally, QEMU's existing loadable module usage is explicitly
designed to try to *prevent* loading of non-upstream code. It aims
to only load code that was built as part of the integrated QEMU
build process. ie, QEMU's loadable module system is about making
it possible to build many QEMU features, but then selectively load
them at runtime to reduce footprint/attack surface. It is *not*
intended to allow non-upstream code to be loaded.


Aside from our goal to prevent/discourage GPL violation through
closed source loadable modules, QEMU also has a strong desire to
not lock ourselves into supporting a public API for loadable
modules. Maintainers wish to retain flexibility to change the
internal APIs at any time.


Partially related to this topic, there is some work taking place
with the goal of making it possible to define new machine types
in QEMU from a QAPI based JSON description.  The actual hardware
devices and CPUs would still need code to be built into QEMU
and upstream, but the way the hardware devices & CPUs are wired
together would be customizable via the JSON config.  That could
get some, but not all, of the benefits you seek without the
downsides the QEMU maintainers wish to avoid.  This isn't ready
to consume yet and we don't have any firm ETA either I'm
afraid.

With regards,
Daniel
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