From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.90_1) id 1pxCVq-00019e-P3 for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 May 2023 16:03:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxBVV-0002cA-NB for grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 May 2023 14:59:17 -0400 Received: from matoro.tk ([104.188.251.153]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pxBVT-0000Nw-VF for grub-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 May 2023 14:59:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; bh=K0U2NxBOOo3qGH0ldVljJeWt1JWjsRJcZ4vwDwE/NzU=; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matoro.tk; h=Subject:Subject:Sender:To:To:Cc:Cc:From:From:Date:Date:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Reply-To:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Message-Id:References:References:Autocrypt:Openpgp; i=@matoro.tk; s=20230312; t=1683830563; v=1; x=1684262563; b=njEpslJXA1Sc59ZzCswsuvC1xdLIXrr21qdjSmccbDgRO02LZbpxA4gD7f2f+G715pl1IryI aglY2y/UGRw1HzdVs53+09GmlFAAFygLxaOID5ejU4k5MVNJxxJd1wWpNKWQYPpyvi8lYX4f7yV JOOiqo0Al3awLmYsH9Jc2oBtBauGrRWFA240A9uaNxuP3FKICRuleXQQ0uMkJFSazkhMY3YBZ+p G9MHH/vLGe04Lb/+Mfw1G6HnHiZq+KE0OZleC+TQGiu8fAYQcJOf4sEZdpkDy3ZNY16yDWgw7EW h8vXZCXtH/I2s3NzP2TcXN8hVJAvGqnFBSfBjYSENZgfi9BjeRbascDTt8jPiZyjNgwgV+cMHKv Rb0tSL3L0FbahXTPf2XUOzEuRmnNgDknkq2IG9m4hL8ux+5eNnPz7pP78R0BIXrIr5pQZdwsTTu UaOQcgna73oa73QHCXJXMeO3VV5i/P+QeznvboF0LjosY4qtFqpTBKyJCM5KrRQ0LEPYBZbCekS CiYx2EY+a3IHN0gsIP1dNI/XpunKoDCixJADPgVJE9q5/ysyf81DOU5PLm+QoX2jqYKWTulyxTE czOyCDZS/3L0hnf9EGXGX1WYVI7yGl7p3NDb0FqkPU1uiAbVkG7xR0sB2cyo4EnmJ2+DI/Acp3t 9GXmrp/fRno= Received: by matoro.tk (envelope-sender ) with ESMTPS id c0b2dc83; Thu, 11 May 2023 14:42:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:42:42 -0400 From: matoro To: Ard Biesheuvel Cc: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , dkiper@net-space.pl, The development of GNU GRUB Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/6] ia64: Remove support In-Reply-To: References: <20230511120640.3518732-1-ardb@kernel.org> <20230511120640.3518732-2-ardb@kernel.org> <8b8ef9b94cb8ce54e24bb2d1954fa35af11636f4.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: X-Sender: matoro_mailinglist_grub-devel@matoro.tk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=104.188.251.153; envelope-from=matoro_mailinglist_grub-devel@matoro.tk; helo=matoro.tk X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:03:40 -0400 X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:59:18 -0000 On 2023-05-11 10:29, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: > On Thu, 11 May 2023 at 15:34, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > wrote: >> >> On Thu, 2023-05-11 at 14:17 +0200, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: >> > On Thu, 11 May 2023 at 14:14, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > On Thu, 2023-05-11 at 14:06 +0200, Ard Biesheuvel wrote: >> > > > Itanium IA-64 support is obsolete, and implements its own flavor of EFI >> > > > boot that deviates from other architectures. Given that IA64 is unused >> > > > and unmaintained, it makes no sense to pretend that the EFI changes we >> > > > are making are tested or supported on IA64, so let's just get rid of it. >> > > >> > > But I just recently tested GRUB from git on IA64 and it worked without >> > > any problems. We're using GRUB to boot Debian on IA64. >> > > >> > >> > IA-64 is a dead platform, and a waste of electricity. >> >> I was just making a statement regarding the testability of the code. >> That's all. >> > > Fair enough. That is good to know actually - that way, we have a known > working state right before we remove it. > >> > Feel free to keep using it, but please stop demanding that our people >> > keep wasting their time on it. If you want to support it in Debian, >> > you can carry it as a downstream patch and shoulder the maintenance >> > burden. >> >> Who is "our people"? Do you think that you are part of the community >> and >> I am not? I don't think this kind of hostility is justified. Neither >> you >> nor I own this project. >> > > Apologies - I had meant to type 'other people' not 'our people'. I > rarely contribute to GRUB myself, so I wouldn't consider myself more a > part of this community than anyone else. > > But my point remains: I have inferred from your response (and your > involvement in similar discussions around the Linux kernel) that you > would prefer Itanium support to be retained, right? > > So could you explain who you think should carry the maintenance > burden? IA64 will be the only EFI architecture in GRUB that does not > boot via an EFI stub in Linux, and this deviation means that retaining > support for it is going to take actual developer and maintainer > bandwidth. GRUB gets very little of that as it is, which means that > keeping IA64 support alive comes at the cost of worse support for > other architectures and platforms. (The series that this patch is part > of breaks the ia64 build, and i i struggle to see why i should care > about that) > > Very few of those people have access to such systems to begin with > (probably none), and the companies that manufactured them stopped > supporting them in the open source years ago, so testing these changes > is not straight-forward, making it unreasonable to demand this from > contributors. Also, it is unclear to me why the needs of the few > people that do still run such a system are not served by a build based > on today's GRUB tree, and why ia64 support needs to be retained going > forward. > > I'll leave it to the maintainers whether to merge this patch or not, > but if this needs to keep working on ia64 as well, someone else will > have to step up. Hi, I also have a functioning GRUB install on ia64 EFI. My machine is fully open and available for debugging work, including on kernel and bootloader (hard resets can be done via management console). If there is any way this support can be saved or at least delayed by providing real hardware to work on, please reach out. The environment is completely remote and available for anybody who would like to give it a try.