From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from fhigh-b8-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b8-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.159]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3BA765192 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2026 23:20:20 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.159 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1782343222; cv=none; b=qOpj8C90PojnC4hFZEXw3ICQXnMcfCtrUH0lpXDv/s4xb06zPV+FrhMFnTQUNxZNCKohq/plncLIa70ymcnwA7EQdGVVJJ1V6McKaZTCiVO0acRESH9LWD8cXtoLToPVqMTWZZxdyB5EN9wG+d84KiN9nZ7ghmnUUp85kVosJ1A= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1782343222; c=relaxed/simple; bh=6vXlSvZ62eJJ9Kt5D+7EIuzGptJpPHoVVuAAWajw64E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=I8LRAIt3w55DipySEdADnLPeprnmVSrv2mkwCl59Kpg738Oo3esz0KENxV5nipKvuqOHZ0WDi3SW1WNVb7hW9qoFuZjxeG+l/i/f9I0/JUxiJ3mrf5v3OK2vlLZt/tgVfLINWCIq3uLtKuFmXASneLY99Uab9Hz9gH39Wiv14XM= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=pobox.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pobox.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b=VSHTL0Fr; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=TTGhYJFO; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.159 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=pobox.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pobox.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b="VSHTL0Fr"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="TTGhYJFO" Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EB47A00D8; Wed, 24 Jun 2026 19:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-frontend-02 ([10.202.2.161]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 24 Jun 2026 19:20:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=cc :cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1782343219; x=1782429619; bh=fvBpWymeW+ w/S1mAXryw44MNPojFVzUEm4V+U0BkqaA=; b=VSHTL0Frfra3kA9p872alzg7Mw ijMUwrBFiUw6Veo0KeczsRxjqOwOBznHQm5Zb17yQvh6Mlc3gXW3hkTi71awW/iq ZsJPesfQsOTNVbG5PPEcctEDw4kvaomU7PbWUgAjVEoN5pFqH8pozWM8MnVYnTka s3SUtT//bD3z4G1jKfVmWQraelRBHhx1LMsvbsJ7r8DjnosDh9Qsj2QrqnrId6V5 jQREQ/r7EhcpCZy7ybPq79LLHuCIwpObS8yEQayTYMnn1HNe/8p8+UJ3pHWGZBIn fg+6tzC+11jSZL5if4exkING9HLooRY7H/2/6Vryp5GL54keqDPLKbsyqqgg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1782343219; x=1782429619; bh=fvBpWymeW+w/S1mAXryw44MNPojFVzUEm4V +U0BkqaA=; b=TTGhYJFOnO9kMAKH07HFnvPJuen+S3629yQ+NvArwrzKElifRTe WPVZVWaaIS1+GlTl2QEs9OjmNm+4V+x7GKMmEGCv7Rk3GLShs5Ug0V+gtI0oICPP I6TaOrr8r9DchvFZP+vSVh5xMXgYrnTKRuqSqtvPIDLfyjjPDP5BW3D2gYHhkug9 pN1LYUy1PwFINWiKbS/+IStFla1iBhb6eslPM9QHdoSD7I7AXJ41wzqfkxyUhZiC 7SKaTBwv+mq+99hksTgysqLaYekqhpZ/N7SPV+xN1if9FtrlHlCUEtVVbFSrjkL+ Mc7qHBq+rUQnK2dxoTGwGOXncHP309gKGVw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: dmFkZTGdLt/Kc50T7L/iYrBLx4AXVLPIrQPw3OxcYqmP/NVP692v6uXV8yeAg7chymg4YX dKP8D/bXd0PVyrDV2e1+pV6uxOVmQIW0iTOk6PDdIulp+tjnsR7GBrzOemhSSt7GYFQuDT bdRfMUiNMPIbR1Za7ScdtIbREcLPlTUUKAhXf9qySdjT4EKWG0M/zypDkXRiQk3qpsdTYu F2KN7iXbp+XAzEjMDtKIqAMrkbWouJJglwZZPnCqTtEC+E2/FSRIr5lIc50jL/htvN+Zyl hsBxLBrs9n71r7T/5JV63CBNbvcZFGk+wwvcCUhplyCKZuDdAlxEoB7kT3j4WBqvVpyWnS uQqlhB/X0KO8DcTohNMBtX8hPXPnIicp054Yr/gGguf3x9UQdm9cW74y0uk/bvBQgoS5b/ rKca9wnzoMW0CCAI5cFWunwA2W6LmchByA6wn0NQB28i2f7xf1MypuhGn+lVUAod1S7lHL 9gc/pTUVLGC7pDjyYb7d9G3FkLK8YN31LNtTeDWjnnhyKc8WJqIyJfFVHDzO9cwV7Be/Yr IbWM22C2HPgur3+tEK/wzrWFy8W0xw7iRGMW3WGYNuPRZCnbxkUwAi2PNpB3ccj/bDcLdI w3F6kR5mccwZsbGDoIv/GvoS5yQDcOTHvLnHHkDDwMSW+uf+Lvs/n6bWH3GA X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: if26b431b:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 24 Jun 2026 19:20:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Junio C Hamano To: Harald Nordgren Cc: phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk, Harald Nordgren via GitGitGadget , git@vger.kernel.org, Ramsay Jones , "D. Ben Knoble" , Kristoffer Haugsbakk , Marc Branchaud Subject: Re: [PATCH v14 2/2] checkout: extend --track with a "fetch" mode to refresh start-point In-Reply-To: (Harald Nordgren's message of "Tue, 23 Jun 2026 19:47:19 +0200") References: <8518f090b1069a02d40c710975528ad118776b67.1781786652.git.gitgitgadget@gmail.com> <12998c3a-ff69-4a98-9ed6-18aa0224e75e@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2026 16:20:16 -0700 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Harald Nordgren writes: > Ok, let's focus on the need for the feature before talking code: > > In an active project, forking from "origin/master" without refreshing > first often has consequences: you start work that has already been > done, or you build on an old version of the code which causes big > conflicts only later when you pull. The fix is simple ... The above only argues that contributors should not start work on top of a stale codebase without looking at reasonably recent codebase. I am not sure if automated fetch immediately before forking to start work will be a good fix for that, especially if the fork of a new branch is done blindly _without_ looking at what the updated upstream contains. > ... ("git fetch > origin master && git checkout -b topic origin/master"), but it is > still a mouthful. Other tools exist because this is annoying enough > that people automate it. And to actually look at the recent codebase, one would probably need git fetch git log [-p] ..origin -- your-area-of-interest/ ... other inspection of the recent changes to refresh your ... understanding of the base code comes here git checkout -b topic origin or something like that. Wouldn't folding the first and the third step into one operation encourage omitting the second step? In a sense, having a tool to let people blindly fetch and fork without looking at what changed recently (i.e., they had a reason to think that what they had was stale, so has a fetch actually resolved that staleness? what new things did the fetch bring in?) may encourage a bad workflow. An obvious complaint against "update and always inspect and understand" would be "it would slow us down!", but that is why projects encourage forking your topic at a well known release tags, not from a random "tip of the tree of the day". I think most of the above has already been communicated earlier in discussions before we got to v14, but I may be wrong. Are there any new arguments in support of the feature?