Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Eliot Blennerhassett]

I'm confused again.  Which is the real official wiki?

This one "AlsaWiki"
http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
(MediaWiki, last change 25 July)
 
OR

This one  "Official Alsa Wiki for Developers"
https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=AlsaWiki
(Powered by Wikka Wakka Wiki) approx 28 content pages, last change 24 July)

It was made clear a while ago that this is the UNofficial wiki:
http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Main_Page
(MediaWiki)

Gosh!, how much fragmentation do we need????

If 3 wikis really are necessary, can we at least have links to the others on 
the main page of each wiki, and explanation of which is most approriate for 
different content?

thanks

Eliot

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:40:45 +1200,
Eliot Blennerhassett wrote:
> 
> I'm confused again.  Which is the real official wiki?
> 
> This one "AlsaWiki"
> http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
> (MediaWiki, last change 25 July)

This one.

>  
> OR
> 
> This one  "Official Alsa Wiki for Developers"
> https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=AlsaWiki
> (Powered by Wikka Wakka Wiki) approx 28 content pages, last change 24 July)

This one for developers only, which has been existed since long time
ago.

> It was made clear a while ago that this is the UNofficial wiki:
> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Main_Page
> (MediaWiki)
> 
> Gosh!, how much fragmentation do we need????
> 
> If 3 wikis really are necessary, can we at least have links to the others on 
> the main page of each wiki, and explanation of which is most approriate for 
> different content?

Only the first one is the official wiki.  The developers wiki should
be gone after migration, IMO.  The unofficial Wiki is literally
unofficial, which we can do nothing directly.  It'd been asked to
migrate both of them, but no action has been done yet.


Takashi

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Eliot Blennerhassett]

OK,  I'll bite, see below.

On Friday 27 July 2007 21:40:09 Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:40:45 +1200,
> Eliot Blennerhassett wrote:
> > I'm confused again.  Which is the real official wiki?
> > http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page

As far as migrating the website on to this wiki, it would be very helpful to 
have a list of the source pages and their wiki equivalents that need 
migrating, otherwise it is very hard for a volunteer to pick a page and do 
it. E.g.  page [[WebMigration]] contains

Volunteers need to migrate these pages.
Pick a page below, and create the matching wiki page. Once you have done this, 
delete the line from here

[http://alsa-project.org/applications.php]  [[Applications]] 
... etc


> > https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=AlsaWiki
>
> This one for developers only, which has been existed since long time
> ago.

> Only the first one is the official wiki.  The developers wiki should
> be gone after migration, IMO.  The unofficial Wiki is literally
> unofficial, which we can do nothing directly.  It'd been asked to
> migrate both of them, but no action has been done yet.

Ingo Mueller wrote:
> If you provide a rough plan of how to
> merge these wikis and you are willing to spent time in its realization,
> I'm sure that people will greatly appriciate it!

Is there a reason NOT to migrate the 'developers only' wiki on 
alsa-project.org into the 'official wiki' .  Converting from wikkawakka to 
mediawiki on the way.

If the (currently active) contributors to the developer wiki agreed, I'd be 
willing to do the grunt work of moving the pages. but the page 'owners' might 
prefer to do the copy and keep the  authorship intact...

JamesCourtierDutton 15 pages
LiamGirdwood 2 or 3 pages
ClemensLadisch 1 page
NormanSchleicher 2 pages
JohnUtz 3 pages
JaroslavKysela 5 pages

And, in the official wiki,  would we want a separate Development: namespace?
Something the wiki-master needs to create.
or is a Development: category a better way to go.

At the end of this migration, we'd be down to 2 wikis, both MediaWiki, so a 
future merge would be easier(???)
====================================
Integrating official and unofficial is a bridge to cross...later.
However, setting up some interwiki mappings between the 2 would make it easier 
to crosslink:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_linking

cheers
.--
Eliot 

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:54:54 +1200,
Eliot Blennerhassett wrote:
> 
> On Friday 27 July 2007 21:40:09 Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:40:45 +1200,
> > Eliot Blennerhassett wrote:
> > > I'm confused again.  Which is the real official wiki?
> > > http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
> 
> As far as migrating the website on to this wiki, it would be very helpful to 
> have a list of the source pages and their wiki equivalents that need 
> migrating, otherwise it is very hard for a volunteer to pick a page and do 
> it. E.g.  page [[WebMigration]] contains
> 
> Volunteers need to migrate these pages.
> Pick a page below, and create the matching wiki page. Once you have done this, 
> delete the line from here
> 
> [http://alsa-project.org/applications.php]  [[Applications]] 
> ... etc

Yes, that's a good idea.  Care to add it on the top?


> > > https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=AlsaWiki
> >
> > This one for developers only, which has been existed since long time
> > ago.
> 
> > Only the first one is the official wiki.  The developers wiki should
> > be gone after migration, IMO.  The unofficial Wiki is literally
> > unofficial, which we can do nothing directly.  It'd been asked to
> > migrate both of them, but no action has been done yet.
> 
> Ingo Mueller wrote:
> > If you provide a rough plan of how to
> > merge these wikis and you are willing to spent time in its realization,
> > I'm sure that people will greatly appriciate it!
> 
> Is there a reason NOT to migrate the 'developers only' wiki on 
> alsa-project.org into the 'official wiki' .  Converting from wikkawakka to 
> mediawiki on the way.
> 
> If the (currently active) contributors to the developer wiki agreed, I'd be 
> willing to do the grunt work of moving the pages.

That'd be greatly appreciated.


> but the page 'owners' might 
> prefer to do the copy and keep the  authorship intact...
> 
> JamesCourtierDutton 15 pages
> LiamGirdwood 2 or 3 pages
> ClemensLadisch 1 page
> NormanSchleicher 2 pages
> JohnUtz 3 pages
> JaroslavKysela 5 pages

Any of you have objections about this?
(sorry I couldn't find Norman's address...)


> And, in the official wiki,  would we want a separate Development: namespace?
> Something the wiki-master needs to create.
> or is a Development: category a better way to go.

I think the catgoery should suffice.  But I'm no Wiki expert al all,
so would like to hear from other skilled guys.


> At the end of this migration, we'd be down to 2 wikis, both MediaWiki, so a 
> future merge would be easier(???)
> ====================================
> Integrating official and unofficial is a bridge to cross...later.
> However, setting up some interwiki mappings between the 2 would make it easier 
> to crosslink:
> 
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_linking

Thanks for the information!


Takashi

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Ingo Müller]

Hi!

Takashi Iwai schrieb:
>> As far as migrating the website on to this wiki, it would be very helpful to 
>> have a list of the source pages and their wiki equivalents that need 
>> migrating, otherwise it is very hard for a volunteer to pick a page and do 
>> it. E.g.  page [[WebMigration]] contains
>>
>> Volunteers need to migrate these pages.
>> Pick a page below, and create the matching wiki page. Once you have done this, 
>> delete the line from here
>>
>> [http://alsa-project.org/applications.php]  [[Applications]] 
>> ... etc
> 
> Yes, that's a good idea.  Care to add it on the top?

I agree with that, too. My question: who knows the current ALSA web site
well enough to fill this list?

>> If the (currently active) contributors to the developer wiki agreed, I'd be 
>> willing to do the grunt work of moving the pages.
> 
> That'd be greatly appreciated.
> 
>> but the page 'owners' might 
>> prefer to do the copy and keep the  authorship intact...
>>
>> JamesCourtierDutton 15 pages
>> LiamGirdwood 2 or 3 pages
>> ClemensLadisch 1 page
>> NormanSchleicher 2 pages
>> JohnUtz 3 pages
>> JaroslavKysela 5 pages
> 
> Any of you have objections about this?
> (sorry I couldn't find Norman's address...)

When I moved the unofficial wiki from an old wiki software to a new
MediaWiki wiki, we decided that it was not worth the extra effort to
keep the authorship intact. Instead, there is a note on the wiki's about
page which linked to a mirror of the old wiki.

If it is possible to track down the authors (like you did above), you
could also just list them on an extra page (maybe "AlsaWiki:Authors")
showing the contributions of these authors to the old wiki. Then,
whenever you move a page to the new wiki, you could link to this page in
the comment ("Moved from old wiki. For details about authorships see
[[AlsaWiki:Authors]].").

>> And, in the official wiki,  would we want a separate Development: namespace?
>> Something the wiki-master needs to create.
>> or is a Development: category a better way to go.
> 
> I think the catgoery should suffice.  But I'm no Wiki expert al all,
> so would like to hear from other skilled guys.

Quote from http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace_manager:
"Generally, namespaces should not be used to categorize content of the
same type -- that is what categories are for." On the other hand, new
namespaces should be created, "if you have a type of content which you
feel is substantially different from the content in the existing
namespaces". Im not sure whether this is the case with the developer
content...

Also, there are some technical things that come along with using a
namespace:

* A different namespace could have a different visual appearence to be
distinguished from other namespace (see
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces#Custom_colors_for_custom_namespaces)

* A namespace can be searched exclusively which can't be done by a
category. Analogicly, the simple search can be set to only search the
"Main:" namespace (default) or more namespaces.

The downside of a namespace is, that they can only be configured by
administrators (changig config files manually). As this has only to be
done once, I think that shouldn't be that much of a problem.

I think, the choise of using a namespace or a category comes down to the
question how different the content and its audience is. If it is really
different, it should be excluded from the default search (so newbies
won't stumble on it by accident), distinguished visually and so on. In
that case, a namespace is what we need. If it makes sense to be
integrated with the rest of the wiki, a category is the better choise.
Unfortunately, I don't know the content of the two wikis well enough to
make that choise...

>> At the end of this migration, we'd be down to 2 wikis, both MediaWiki, so a 
>> future merge would be easier(???)

Indeed, there are in- and export functions since a couple of version of
mediawiki.

>> ====================================
>> Integrating official and unofficial is a bridge to cross...later.
>> However, setting up some interwiki mappings between the 2 would make it easier 
>> to crosslink:
>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Interwiki_linking
> 
> Thanks for the information!
> 
> 
> Takashi

I'm happy that someone initiated a discussion on that topic again. Maybe
I can get motivated to join the merging process after I finished my
exams :-)

Greets, Ingo

Official wiki migration from website.

[Eliot Blennerhassett]

Greetings,

On Friday 03 August 2007 06:15:44 Ingo Müller wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Takashi Iwai schrieb:
> >> As far as migrating the website on to this wiki, it would be very
> >> helpful to have a list of the source pages and their wiki equivalents
> >> that need migrating, otherwise it is very hard for a volunteer to pick a
> >> page and do it. E.g.  page [[WebMigration]] contains

> > Yes, that's a good idea.  Care to add it on the top?
>
> I agree with that, too. My question: who knows the current ALSA web site
> well enough to fill this list?

I created http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/MigrationPlan

As Ingo says, it needs someone who knows the website well to make the list. 
(Jaroslav? Takashi?)  Even say 10 high priority pages would be a start...


cheers

Eliot

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Eliot Blennerhassett]

On Friday 03 August 2007 00:50:43 Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:54:54 +1200,
>
> Eliot Blennerhassett wrote:
> > If the (currently active) contributors to the developer wiki agreed, I'd
> > be willing to do the grunt work of moving the pages.
>
> That'd be greatly appreciated.
>
> > but the page 'owners' might
> > prefer to do the copy and keep the  authorship intact...
> >
> > JamesCourtierDutton 15 pages
> > LiamGirdwood 2 or 3 pages
> > ClemensLadisch 1 page
> > NormanSchleicher 2 pages
> > JohnUtz 3 pages
> > JaroslavKysela 5 pages
>
> Any of you have objections about this?
> (sorry I couldn't find Norman's address...)

If I don't hear back otherwise, I will start some time next week copying the 
pages, with backlink and attribution

> > And, in the official wiki,  would we want a separate Development:
> > namespace? Something the wiki-master needs to create.
> > or is a Development: category a better way to go.

I created development category  (just need to add [[Category:Development]] to 
any page.  
http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Category:Development

> I think the catgoery should suffice.  But I'm no Wiki expert al all,
> so would like to hear from other skilled guys.

However it seems there is already a namespace "AlsaWiki" which contains only 2 
pages. By default its excluded from search.  Maybe this was intended for the 
alsa dev wiki content (Jaroslav?)

http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/AlsaWiki:About
http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/AlsaWiki:Developer_Zone

--
Eliot

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Ingo Müller]

Hi!

Eliot Blennerhassett schrieb:
> However it seems there is already a namespace "AlsaWiki" which contains only 2 
> pages. By default its excluded from search.  Maybe this was intended for the 
> alsa dev wiki content (Jaroslav?)
> 
> http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/AlsaWiki:About
> http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/AlsaWiki:Developer_Zone

The AlsaWiki namespace is the project namespace as the wiki's name is
"AlsaWiki" (wikipedias project namespace is "Wikipedia:...". The project
namespace is for articles about the wiki itself and its organisation and
should not be used for articles about the topic of the wiki.

Greets, Ingo

Re: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Jaroslav Kysela]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 905 bytes --]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Ingo Müller wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Eliot Blennerhassett schrieb:
> > However it seems there is already a namespace "AlsaWiki" which contains only 2 
> > pages. By default its excluded from search.  Maybe this was intended for the 
> > alsa dev wiki content (Jaroslav?)
> > 
> > http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/AlsaWiki:About
> > http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/AlsaWiki:Developer_Zone
> 
> The AlsaWiki namespace is the project namespace as the wiki's name is
> "AlsaWiki" (wikipedias project namespace is "Wikipedia:...". The project
> namespace is for articles about the wiki itself and its organisation and
> should not be used for articles about the topic of the wiki.

Thanks. I moved this page from AlsaWiki namespace.

						Jaroslav

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project, SUSE Labs

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 160 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Alsa-devel mailing list
Alsa-devel@alsa-project.org
http://mailman.alsa-project.org/mailman/listinfo/alsa-devel

Wiki login, Was: Will the real alsa wiki please stand up?

[Wallace, Brooke]

I just tried to create an account on the new wiki via the "login/create account" link in the upper right hand corner, but it only allows logins, there is nothing there for creating a new account.

I'm willing to volunteer some, but will need a login to the wiki.

-Brooke