From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from alsa0.perex.cz (alsa0.perex.cz [77.48.224.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1FF4C4332F for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 12:45:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (alsa1.perex.cz [207.180.221.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa0.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96CB83E; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:44:58 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa0.perex.cz 96CB83E DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=alsa-project.org; s=default; t=1699879548; bh=MQbkSDUiGthELij+clyy2MWBR01RgHz+P/tcMtA8zYc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:List-Id: List-Archive:List-Help:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe:From; b=swiM2m3thjZoUmy+vDCu25ZCruL6x7y8pvxrxXexGZhJiEsTG2X937zzQOCTuTmeH pG1D/kaKda1r8MciOZVZ3slrMkB4ODRfB0XQXD615xvbOEVXK9D5YFxQwZsNBg5Xas BykYk6HSD8PKlsyBuVR2hknuZPG9Exjm5PA0SXH4= Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id CEB7EF80249; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:44:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from mailman-core.alsa-project.org (mailman-core.alsa-project.org [10.254.200.10]) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30521F80249; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:44:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id 52FE7F801D5; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:44:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from perceval.ideasonboard.com (perceval.ideasonboard.com [213.167.242.64]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8B02F80152 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:44:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa1.perex.cz B8B02F80152 Authentication-Results: alsa1.perex.cz; dkim=pass (1024-bit key, unprotected) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=mail header.b=vfWkWekB Received: from pendragon.ideasonboard.com (213-243-189-158.bb.dnainternet.fi [213.243.189.158]) by perceval.ideasonboard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0BB5929A; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:43:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ideasonboard.com; s=mail; t=1699879421; bh=MQbkSDUiGthELij+clyy2MWBR01RgHz+P/tcMtA8zYc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=vfWkWekBqKHGAaE2eWRBghtZn7r87P8gmzJ3gCNH3KusI8zILXP8XKUZY8v4E2PTc 5IFHUrAbY8JOZlY+XfqGVIAcCFqZFcIjzHCpfo5u2CEtQeBkVEiq29O6631j55xJia hI8iiGTFkbTvLPZhfIdU6S+BaqhNgrDeMoyAPPeE= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 14:44:12 +0200 From: Laurent Pinchart To: Hans Verkuil Cc: Sakari Ailus , Shengjiu Wang , tfiga@chromium.org, m.szyprowski@samsung.com, mchehab@kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, shengjiu.wang@gmail.com, Xiubo.Lee@gmail.com, festevam@gmail.com, nicoleotsuka@gmail.com, lgirdwood@gmail.com, broonie@kernel.org, perex@perex.cz, tiwai@suse.com, alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 10/15] media: uapi: Add V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_FIXED_POINT Message-ID: <20231113124412.GA18974@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> References: <1699595289-25773-1-git-send-email-shengjiu.wang@nxp.com> <1699595289-25773-11-git-send-email-shengjiu.wang@nxp.com> <4cd6b593-2376-4cbc-a7c8-d3eb36a2f7a0@xs4all.nl> <20231113104238.GA13981@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <6a3e7eb9-505c-4cfb-8a86-a8947a2e44d5@xs4all.nl> <20231113110754.GB24338@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <3e898664-cbfc-4892-9765-37b66891643b@xs4all.nl> <20231113114357.GD24338@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Message-ID-Hash: TGJNYAKROZUJCACZCBXBS7QJWR4EDIHT X-Message-ID-Hash: TGJNYAKROZUJCACZCBXBS7QJWR4EDIHT X-MailFrom: laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-alsa-devel.alsa-project.org-0; header-match-alsa-devel.alsa-project.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Hans, On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 01:05:12PM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > On 13/11/2023 12:43, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:28:51AM +0000, Sakari Ailus wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:24:14PM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > >>> On 13/11/2023 12:07, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > >>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:56:49AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > >>>>> On 13/11/2023 11:42, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:29:09AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > >>>>>>> On 10/11/2023 06:48, Shengjiu Wang wrote: > >>>>>>>> Fixed point controls are used by the user to configure > >>>>>>>> a fixed point value in 64bits, which Q31.32 format. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Shengjiu Wang > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This patch adds a new control type. This is something that also needs to be > >>>>>>> tested by v4l2-compliance, and for that we need to add support for this to > >>>>>>> one of the media test-drivers. The best place for that is the vivid driver, > >>>>>>> since that has already a bunch of test controls for other control types. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> See e.g. VIVID_CID_INTEGER64 in vivid-ctrls.c. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can you add a patch adding a fixed point test control to vivid? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I don't think V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_FIXED_POINT is a good idea. This seems to > >>>>>> relate more to units than control types. We have lots of fixed-point > >>>>>> values in controls already, using the 32-bit and 64-bit integer control > >>>>>> types. They use various locations for the decimal point, depending on > >>>>>> the control. If we want to make this more explicit to users, we should > >>>>>> work on adding unit support to the V4L2 controls. > >>>>> > >>>>> "Fixed Point" is not a unit, it's a type. 'Db', 'Hz' etc. are units. > >>>> > >>>> It's not a unit, but I think it's related to units. My point is that, > >>>> without units support, I don't see why we need a formal definition of > >>>> fixed-point types, and why this series couldn't just use > >>>> VIVID_CID_INTEGER64. Drivers already interpret VIVID_CID_INTEGER64 > >>>> values as they see fit. > >>> > >>> They do? That's new to me. A quick grep for V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_INTEGER64 > >>> (I assume you meant that rather than VIVID_CID_INTEGER64) shows that it > > > > Yes, I meant V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_INTEGER64. Too hasty copy & paste :-) > > > >>> is always interpreted as a 64 bit integer and nothing else. As it should. > > > > The most common case for control handling in drivers is taking the > > integer value and converting it to a register value, using > > device-specific encoding of the register value. It can be a fixed-point > > format or something else, depending on the device. My point is that > > drivers routinely convert a "plain" integer to something else, and that > > has never been considered as a cause of concern. I don't see why it > > would be different in this series. > > > >>> And while we do not have support for units (other than the documentation), > >>> we do have type support in the form of V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_*. > >>> > >>>>> A quick "git grep -i "fixed point" Documentation/userspace-api/media/' > >>>>> only shows a single driver specific control (dw100.rst). > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm not aware of other controls in mainline that use fixed point. > >>>> > >>>> The analog gain control for sensors for instance. > >>> > >>> Not really. The documentation is super vague: > >>> > >>> V4L2_CID_ANALOGUE_GAIN (integer) > >>> > >>> Analogue gain is gain affecting all colour components in the pixel matrix. The > >>> gain operation is performed in the analogue domain before A/D conversion. > >>> > >>> And the integer is just a range. Internally it might map to some fixed > >>> point value, but userspace won't see that, it's hidden in the driver AFAICT. > > > > It's hidden so well that libcamera has a database of the sensor it > > supports, with formulas to map a real gain value to the > > V4L2_CID_ANALOGUE_GAIN control. The encoding of the integer value does > > matter, and the kernel doesn't expose it. We may or may not consider > > that as a shortcoming of the V4L2 control API, but in any case it's the > > situation we have today. > > > >> I wonder if Laurent meant digital gain. > > > > No, I meant analog. It applies to digital gain too though. > > > >> Those are often Q numbers. The practice there has been that the default > >> value yields gain of 1. > >> > >> There are probably many other examples in controls where something being > >> controlled isn't actually an integer while integer controls are still being > >> used for the purpose. > > > > A good summary of my opinion :-) > > And that works fine as long as userspace doesn't need to know what the value > actually means. > > That's not the case here. The control is really a fractional Hz value: > > +``V4L2_CID_M2M_AUDIO_SOURCE_RATE_OFFSET (fixed point)`` > + Sets the offset from the audio source sample rate, unit is Hz. > + The offset compensates for any clock drift. The actual source audio sample > + rate is the ideal source audio sample rate from > + ``V4L2_CID_M2M_AUDIO_SOURCE_RATE`` plus this fixed point offset. I don't see why this would require a new type, you can use V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_INTEGER64, and document the control as containing fixed-point values in Q31.32 format. > >> Instead of this patch, I'd prefer to have a way to express the meaning of > >> the control value, be it a Q number or something else, and do that > >> independently of the type of the control. > > Huh? How is that different from the type of the control? You have integers > (one type) and fixed point (another type). > > Or do you want a more general V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_ that specifies the N.M values > explicitly? > > I think the main reason why we use integer controls for gain is that we > never had a fixed point control type and you could get away with that in > user space for that particular use-case. > > Based on the V4L2_CID_NOTIFY_GAINS documentation the gain value can typically > be calculated as (value / default_value), Typically, but not always. Some sensor have an exponential gain model, and some have weird gain representation, such as 1/x. That's getting out of scope though. > but that won't work for a rate offset > control as above, or for e.g. CSC matrices for color converters. > > > Agreed. > > > >>> In the case of this particular series the control type is really a fixed point > >>> value with a documented unit (Hz). It really is not something you want to > >>> use type INTEGER64 for. > >>> > >>>>> Note that V4L2_CTRL_TYPE_FIXED_POINT is a Q31.32 format. By setting > >>>>> min/max/step you can easily map that to just about any QN.M format where > >>>>> N <= 31 and M <= 32. > >>>>> > >>>>> In the case of dw100 it is a bit different in that it is quite specialized > >>>>> and it had to fit in 16 bits. -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart